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-   -   Could you make this call? (http://www.pokertips.org/forums/showthread.php?t=30230)

Idaelus Mar 10, 2006 4:29pm

Could you make this call?
 
This happened in a $50 buy in 10 person home tournament, NLHE.
I play with these cats every once in a while, and they are fairly weak, just check calling all of the time. I haven't played with them in a few months, but here is the hand set up.



This is the first hand, everyone has 2000 in chips, blinds 10/20.
You (the villan) are in 7th position with 8h-3h. Every one has limped up to you, and you decide to limp also. Pos. 8 and 9 limp. Now the handsome man on the button, (the hero) makes it 150 to go. SB & BB call, and all the limpers to you call :shock: (?!?!?!?!?!?). And you call. Pos 8 & 9 call too.

The flop is 2h-3s-4h.

SB and BB check, 3rd bets 215, every one to you calls, you call, 8 & 9 call, handsome button hero pushes all in, every one folds to you. Can you make this call?

Well you do, and you 10-8 flush ends up beating the hero's 10-6 flush when the 10h hits the turn.

I bet 150 to go from the button with 5h-6h. Before I hear cries of outrage, I would have made the same bet with just about any two cards in that position against this particular group. They like to limp, but don't like raises too much, and will generally fold. No one was more surprised then me to have 9 callers to that bet. And when I hit the hand, I was thinking Whoo-Hoo!

On the flop, when 3rd position bet 215, I put him on the nut flush draw, as that is consistent with his play. (He later confided to having Ah-9h) with all of the callers, I felt the best way to take down this pot would be to push-in, and make it so the nut flush couldn't call the bet. I figured the only call I would get would be if someone else had 5-6, and that I would be free-rolling against them.

Did I misplay this hand? Any help would be great.

Badsastard Mar 10, 2006 4:42pm

If I've just read this right it seems that everybody involved played this hand horribly at pretty much every stage. I'd be interested to hear if anyone disagrees with me.

cetacean Mar 10, 2006 5:51pm

Im not a huge fan of the button raise preflop, but you know this group better than I do. For me, 65s is a great hand to see a cheap flop. I'd have limped.

I like the push on the flop. The pot is large enough to want to take down immediately, and there is a flush draw on the board. Your pushing gave flush draws the wrong odds to call, someone made a bad call and got rewarded.

Idaelus Mar 10, 2006 6:19pm

Normally, I'm not a big fan of the button raise without a big hand either, because it is such a transparent play. But I disagree with the guy that said everyone played badly. If you raise with nothing but huge hands, you are never going to get called by any other player who has more of an attention span than a six year old child with ADD. Seeing how this group was so loose/passive, I normally play pretty tight. I cant quite remember if I had ever made that type of raise before, and this time I got burned. I still ended up winning money that night (in later games), and now I have a loose imamge for them so I can go back to being tight/aggressive. Limping is not a bad choice either. Thanks for the input.

Badsastard Mar 10, 2006 8:12pm

I'm not saying you need a big hand to make a raise, what I'm saying is that a button raise with with 7 limpers with 56h is not a good play. If there hadn't been any limpers and this was a Blind stealing attempt fair enough. This was the perfect hand to limp with suited connectors as the odds you were getting were huge. The guy calling with 83h made a poor play I doubt I would have even limped with that hand. Your reraise AI I didn't mind so much, the call from the 83h guy was ludicrous.

You say it was the 1st hand you had played with these guys in months - how are they supposed to remember your table image??

XA_kid Mar 10, 2006 8:36pm

Maybe it's because I haven't taken my smart pills today, but what was the flop with 56h? The same as the one with the 83h? I would call the first one all day and would lean towards a push.

As for the button raise, if you think everyone is going to fold, then go ahead, but you at first described a group that likes to passively call, so I think limping is the best idea.

EDIT: oh wait, I get it now. Yeah, I would still call it on that flop, too much money in the middle to let it go.

Double Edit: If I understand this correctly, I would've called with the A9h too. You have an overcard, a gutshot, and the flush draw. Of course, if he knew what you had, he'd be in bad shape, but you did effectivly disguise your hand.

Idaelus Mar 11, 2006 7:54am

XA_kid- you finally hit exactly what has been nagging me since that hand. I did disguise my hand, and in that light, the call from the 8-3 does make some sense. (Huge pot, he prolly has Big Pair, and I'm prolly the only flush draw left. Although, I expected to get called by the first bettor) I wasn't very clear with the table dynamics in my origanl post, BTW. They passivley call until a raise hits, and then they fold like theres no tommorow. When I made the button raise, and everyone called, I was thinking, WTF? Normally, that type of play would cause 6 of them to fold, and with position I could take down a pot with a bet if he missed. I have little fear of check/limp raises from this group, they tend to think that a check raise is cheating somehow. If the A-9 had called me using your reasoning, I would have smiled and said "Nice hand." I said that anyway, but I'm scratching my head as to why the 8-3 was in the hand anyway. Be that as it may, it did loosen my image to them, and thats money for me.

badsastard- I have an idea of how any semi-regular opponent of mine plays on a regular basis. I play with these guys 10-15 times a year, but had not been there since late Dec. I don't feel that table image is something they all would have forgotten in just slighty over 60 days, and the comment they made when I got there just reinforced my "Tightwad Image"tm Above, I detail why I made that raise. If it's wrong, then it's wrong.


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