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-   -   First shot at 200nl (http://www.pokertips.org/forums/showthread.php?t=72031)

Mr Beaks Dec 02, 2009 11:06am

First shot at 200nl
 
Shot-taking pays off!

First up a decent 360+bb pot and proof that 200nl players aren't always better deep than 50nl players. Obviously I mangled the hand but who cares?:

Pacific $200.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 401140
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

UTG: $198.00
MP: $197.00
CO: $454.30
BTN: $59.50
Hero (SB): $367.75
BB: $467.00

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is SB with 3http://static.deucescracked.com/images/heart.gif 3http://static.deucescracked.com/images/spade.gif
2 folds, CO raises to $7, 1 fold, Hero calls $6, 1 fold

Flop: ($16.00) 3http://static.deucescracked.com/images/diamond.gif 8http://static.deucescracked.com/images/spade.gif 8http://static.deucescracked.com/images/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $6.00, CO raises to $20, Hero calls $14

Turn: ($56.00) Thttp://static.deucescracked.com/images/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $37.00, Hero raises to $80, CO calls $43

River: ($216.00) 5http://static.deucescracked.com/images/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $100.00, CO raises to $347.30, Hero calls $160.75 all in

Final Pot: $737.50
CO shows 8http://static.deucescracked.com/images/heart.gif 6http://static.deucescracked.com/images/heart.gif
Hero shows 3http://static.deucescracked.com/images/heart.gif 3http://static.deucescracked.com/images/spade.gif
Hero wins $733.50
CO wins $86.55

Then to round it off a little while later:

Pacific $200.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 401147
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BB: $206.00
UTG: $646.85
CO: $204.60
Hero (BTN): $584.10
SB: $523.50

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is BTN with 8http://static.deucescracked.com/images/club.gif 8http://static.deucescracked.com/images/diamond.gif
1 fold, CO raises to $6, Hero calls $6, SB calls $5, 1 fold

Flop: ($20.00) Khttp://static.deucescracked.com/images/diamond.gif Khttp://static.deucescracked.com/images/spade.gif Ahttp://static.deucescracked.com/images/spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, CO bets $11.00, Hero calls $11, SB calls $11

Turn: ($53.00) 8http://static.deucescracked.com/images/spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, CO bets $45.00, Hero calls $45, SB folds

River: ($143.00) 6http://static.deucescracked.com/images/diamond.gif (2 players)
CO bets $142.60, Hero calls $142.60

Final Pot: $428.20
CO shows 5http://static.deucescracked.com/images/spade.gif 7http://static.deucescracked.com/images/spade.gif
Hero shows 8http://static.deucescracked.com/images/club.gif 8http://static.deucescracked.com/images/diamond.gif
Hero wins $424.20

Summary:
  • Up 5BI over 900 hands taking shots at 200nl
  • Played like a tosser in big pots but got paid off
  • Back to 100nl before I lose it all again

BubbleBoy Dec 02, 2009 11:18am

you butchered both of these pretty badly

and wtf is the dude in #1 shoving the river lol

Mr Beaks Dec 02, 2009 12:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BubbleBoy (Post 840907)
you butchered both of these pretty badly

and wtf is the dude in #1 shoving the river lol

I know I did - I got so excited about flopping the joint in hand 1 that I totally lost track of how I should be playing it. My line it so weird. Please feel free to tell me how I should have played them both.

My view is:

Hand 1
Bet $12 on the flop, CR more on the turn and bet larger on the river (probably I can shove the river if the F & T bet sizing is better). Can't believe the guy goes broke with crappy trips that deep though.

Hand 2
Probably fold flop but definitely raise turn. Didn't think this one was so bad since villain does all the work for me.

Thoughts?

Red4Eva Dec 02, 2009 10:27pm

hahaha ezgame

grats

Mr Beaks Dec 03, 2009 8:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red4Eva (Post 841056)
hahaha ezgame

So it would seem!

Pacific $200.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 403325
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BTN: $200.00
Hero (SB): $365.00
BB: $200.00
UTG: $172.30
MP: $214.22
CO: $428.40

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is SB with Khttp://static.deucescracked.com/images/diamond.gif Khttp://static.deucescracked.com/images/heart.gif
UTG raises to $7, 3 folds, Hero raises to $22, 1 fold, UTG raises to $172.30, Hero calls $150.30

Flop: ($346.60) 4http://static.deucescracked.com/images/spade.gif 5http://static.deucescracked.com/images/heart.gif Khttp://static.deucescracked.com/images/club.gif (2 players)

Turn: ($346.60) 9http://static.deucescracked.com/images/heart.gif (2 players)

River: ($346.60) Jhttp://static.deucescracked.com/images/heart.gif (2 players)

Final Pot: $346.60
Hero shows Khttp://static.deucescracked.com/images/diamond.gif Khttp://static.deucescracked.com/images/heart.gif
UTG shows Qhttp://static.deucescracked.com/images/club.gif 9http://static.deucescracked.com/images/club.gif
Hero wins $342.60
(Rake: $4.00)

Pacific......there really is no place like it!

BubbleBoy Dec 03, 2009 6:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Beaks (Post 840915)

Hand 1
Bet $12 on the flop, CR more on the turn and bet larger on the river (probably I can shove the river if the F & T bet sizing is better). Can't believe the guy goes broke with crappy trips that deep though.

Hand 2
Probably fold flop but definitely raise turn. Didn't think this one was so bad since villain does all the work for me.

Thoughts?

Hand 1
Fold preflop (or sometimes 3bet). Dont EVER lead this flop with anything. After all that, you need you sizing to work out to get AI by the river. Raise turn higher and then shove river.

Dunno about flop, I think I would 3bet once he raises. If you just call his flop raise chances are that's all the money you get from TT+. At the same time 8x has like 4 outs and the weak 8x stack if you 3b flop but might fold/get to sd cheaper if you just call the raise. Just like it went down, he should just be calling river (maybe folding) and you lose almost a buyin because of you funky line.

Hand 2
Fold the flop and it's not even remotely debatable.

Mr Beaks Dec 03, 2009 8:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BubbleBoy (Post 841268)
Hand 1
Fold preflop (or sometimes 3bet). Dont EVER lead this flop with anything. After all that, you need you sizing to work out to get AI by the river. Raise turn higher and then shove river.

Dunno about flop, I think I would 3bet once he raises. If you just call his flop raise chances are that's all the money you get from TT+. At the same time 8x has like 4 outs and the weak 8x stack if you 3b flop but might fold/get to sd cheaper if you just call the raise. Just like it went down, he should just be calling river (maybe folding) and you lose almost a buyin because of you funky line.

Hand 2
Fold the flop and it's not even remotely debatable.

Totally agree on hand 2, especially since I'm not last to act. Hand 1 though - why can't lead the flop? People love to spazz against donk bets and it's very likely I'm full of shit when I lead so weak. I hate check / calling all the time and a CR on the flop seems too strong.

BubbleBoy Dec 03, 2009 10:43pm

yeah no offense buts that's 2002 like poker talk

you say
1) People love to spazz against donk bets
2) it's very likely I'm full of shit when I lead so weak
3) I hate check / calling all the time
4) a CR on the flop seems too strong.

1) ok that's an exploitive argument and def valid. if you think people get in tons of money against a donk with random hands but wont put in more than a cbet otherwise ok. but how do you know?
2) and thus? while this sounds good it doesn't mean anything.
3) you hate it? so? pretty random blabla
4) seems too strong? now you've completely lost all rationale :D

working out the details here is complicated, but a few things.

- his range is stronger than yours on the flop, and he is the pfr, thus he should drive the betting. he will cbet this very frequently. in which case checking 100% is correct.
- your range is full of weak made hands (pps/Ahi) and contains few nut hands. that means your range cannot support to polarize the strong hands from the weak made hands this early. (if you donk 33/8x then you are c/calling pps only = he can barrel the hell out of you)

that's just theory wise. practically, you can look at individual hands. How do you get the max out of various hands? for most air hands the answer is c/c and like him turn a pair. for most medium made hands, the answer is you will get between 2 and 3 bets, like 2 if you c/c, 3 if you c/r, as a board estimate. for the strong made hands the answer is you should c/r and start shoveling money into the pot, though calling down to raise the river isn't much worse. Combining all these, and thinking about protecting your own weak made hands, the standard play would be a flop c/c and go from there, while mixing in a c/r very occasionally.

FishersFritz Dec 04, 2009 12:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BubbleBoy (Post 841268)
Hand 1
Fold preflop (or sometimes 3bet).

Why would you fold a pp that deep preflop?
I would rarely fold that pre being 100bb deep.:confused:


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