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-   -   Deep in 215 MTT; check/give up turn? (http://www.pokertips.org/forums/showthread.php?t=75423)

SwoopAE Jul 31, 2010 6:07pm

Deep in 215 MTT; check/give up turn?
 
Full Tilt Poker Game #22728536156: $35,000 Guarantee (168634329), Table 12 - 15/30 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 14:02:55 ET - 2010/07/31
Seat 1: Kenny Rap (4,550)
Seat 2: SwoopAE (4,865)
Seat 3: Gmflash (5,000)
Seat 4: LinLied (4,970)
Seat 5: Tiltiana (5,000)
Seat 6: SaM_BeVaN (5,615)
LinLied posts the small blind of 15
Tiltiana posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SwoopAE [Td 8d 7h Kh]
SaM_BeVaN folds
Kenny Rap raises to 90
SwoopAE calls 90
Gmflash has 15 seconds left to act
Gmflash folds
LinLied folds
Tiltiana has 15 seconds left to act
Tiltiana folds
*** FLOP *** [Ts 2d Ks]
Kenny Rap bets 120
SwoopAE raises to 585
Kenny Rap calls 465
*** TURN *** [Ts 2d Ks] [Js]
Kenny Rap checks
SwoopAE checks
*** RIVER *** [Ts 2d Ks Js] [Ad]
Kenny Rap bets 800
SwoopAE: fml really
SwoopAE has 15 seconds left to act
SwoopAE: awesome turn and river lol
SwoopAE has requested TIME
SwoopAE folds
Uncalled bet of 800 returned to Kenny Rap
Kenny Rap mucks
Kenny Rap wins the pot (1,395)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1,395 | Rake 0
Board: [Ts 2d Ks Js Ad]
Seat 1: Kenny Rap collected (1,395), mucked
Seat 2: SwoopAE folded on the River
Seat 3: Gmflash (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: LinLied (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: Tiltiana (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: SaM_BeVaN didn't bet (folded)

Thoughts?

No reads; about 5th hand of the tournament

darryl Jul 31, 2010 6:33pm

any queen with paint wins. Seems like something he would have. FML seems like a good reply. I'd just dump it, you only beat a bluff here and you haven't invested a whole lot.
He probably had something like QQtx without the flush or possibly with a baby flush. I dunno, i just don't think you are good enough times to justify.
I'm still pretty new to the game, so i could be way off here.

-d

edit, wait, you want to know what to do on the turn? 5th hand in, you don't have a read, so I don't know how often there are check raises in this situation, but you could try taking it down, but if you get called by anything you are beat. You do have the four outs for the boat though.
So I don't know how often you are good here which is I guess what you want to know. Sorry.

killcrazy Jul 31, 2010 6:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by darryl (Post 910756)
He probably had something like QQtx

i'll lay you 100:1 he didn't. how does he get to the turn? his hand is a turd on the flop.

on such a wet board with top two and no redraws i don't like the flop raise. there are too many cards that can ruin this hand. too deep to raise imo.

Kc

SwoopAE Jul 31, 2010 10:43pm

Assume we call the flop as you suggest.

Turn is 8d

Villain bets 330

What's your plan for the hand from here?

Alternatively, turn is 9d or 2s. What's the plan?

SwoopAE Jul 31, 2010 10:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by darryl (Post 910756)
any queen with paint wins. Seems like something he would have. FML seems like a good reply. I'd just dump it, you only beat a bluff here and you haven't invested a whole lot.
He probably had something like QQtx without the flush or possibly with a baby flush. I dunno, i just don't think you are good enough times to justify.
I'm still pretty new to the game, so i could be way off here.

-d

edit, wait, you want to know what to do on the turn? 5th hand in, you don't have a read, so I don't know how often there are check raises in this situation, but you could try taking it down, but if you get called by anything you are beat. You do have the four outs for the boat though.
So I don't know how often you are good here which is I guess what you want to know. Sorry.

Yeah Darryl he kinda never has QQTx here. His range is mostly aces with a nut flush draw, aces with a queen, AKQxx with some random other hands I guess (mostly AKxx AAxx etc)

killcrazy Jul 31, 2010 11:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwoopAE (Post 910796)
Assume we call the flop as you suggest.

Turn is 8d

Villain bets 330

What's your plan for the hand from here?

you have two apparently reasonable options on a brick, play back at him and flat both have pros and cons; you probably have the better hand but all the draws are still live, and we're not just worried about flush and straight draws of course, we're worried about bigger two pair draws too. flatting isn't the end of the world because he might keep betting or check-call the river putting you on a busted draw, but we likely have the best hand right now (and having 3 pairs means there are only 6 (omaha makes this a tad more complex but you know what i'm saying here) ways to make sets, half of which are 22 and there aren't too many XX22 raising hands) and the equity balance of made hand vs draw has moved enormously in our favour now that he only has one card to spike. raising seems merited.

other thoughts. if we raise the flop and he calls we narrow his range down to good but not awesome draws and some two pairs. if we flat he still has everything he raised preflop in his range when the turn hits, he also has significantly less information about our hand, doesn't know if we're made or drawing, lots of ways for him to make mistakes. all told, we create a much more profitable turn scenario with the flop call.

Quote:

Alternatively, turn is 9d or 2s. What's the plan?
lose less money than you do by raising the flop. my turn action would be heavily intestine based if a draw card hits and he donks.

Kc

SwoopAE Aug 01, 2010 11:49am

Solid thought process, I like it.

TY for responses

darryl Aug 01, 2010 4:15pm

Yeah, sorry bout my less than stellar response, still new to the game and like to see this forum active, so I thought I'd throw my hat in.

-d

SwoopAE Aug 01, 2010 4:29pm

By all means respond to all the hands here either you'll be helpful or if you're not you give other people the chance to point out what you're doing wrong which helps you

Also @ Ozone/mods, any chance we could rename this Omaha Strategy Forum since it's more fitting to post PLO MTT hands here vs MTT Strat as well as PLO Ring Game hands?

jimmytrick Aug 01, 2010 5:12pm

I think the flop raise was fine. I think you played the hand well.


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