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darryl Feb 22, 2012 5:54pm

Standard wrap
This was a live 1-2 PLO game with a 5 dollar button straddle. I was a bit short stacked at $280 or so. I was bb, villain was late position and had me covered by double or so.

I'm dealt jt97 two spades. SB folds, I call the $5, a raise to $25 from mid, one call, villain calls, folds to me, I call. $100 in the pot.

Flop is A68 rainbow giving me 13 outs for the nut straight with redraws for a higher straight. I'm first to act and put out a pot sized bet with the hope of taking it down, but planning on going all in blind on the turn against this particular villain and seeing the turn card against anyone else.

The villain is very loose, calls down with low hands in small pots, likes to try to bully. My image is very tight and I've been getting some respect.

Only the villain calls, so I stuck to the plan and went all in blind on the turn.
Good move?

My thoughts are against this villain is that even with a naked pair of aces, he would probably call my bet and hope for improvement on the turn. He could call with a straight draw, but 95% of the time, it will be worse than mine, or to the non nut straight. If he did manage to have 2 pair, he may have raised, even if he just called, i'm still in good shape and a blind bet could convince him that I'm on a set and possibly get a fold out of him. If he had a set and did raise my flop bet, I'm still committed and would have to call anyway. It's pretty unlikely he had a set and didn't raise though.

Obviously if I was deeper stacked, I'd consider my options more on the turn.


killcrazy Feb 23, 2012 2:40am

preflop is a little bit speculative but okay.

how likely are you to get a bet from someone if you check the flop?

also that's screwy, any time i've played with a button blind the action still starts to the left of the BB.


darryl Feb 23, 2012 12:23pm

I'd say it's about 60% or so that there's a bet on the flop. I had been very quiet, so being first to act, if I pot it I figured most of the players would assume I've got a set or top two, We were 6 handed if that matters.

Yeah, the button straddle where I play favors the button way too much, but it's nice when you're the button.


Ozone Feb 23, 2012 3:59pm

Was there a spade on flop?

darryl Feb 23, 2012 5:05pm

Honestly, I don't remember, but I don't think there was. If there was, I wouldn't have that influence my decision a whole lot, I guess though if the turn was another space, it would be easier to get it all in.
For this example, lets say no spade.


killcrazy Feb 23, 2012 5:50pm

the backdoor flush is worth a few percent, be aware of it.

my default line here is going to be a check-shove. i can make a bigger bet that way and so improve my fold equity, might also get some dead money from someone who calls and then either folds or overcalls with a second best hand.


TWLLM Feb 24, 2012 12:59am

Overall your line is fine, even if I can imagine something I prefer having thought about the hand after the fact.

Preflop is fine - I might even raise to $15 to open depending on how much 3-betting goes on at this table (I assume 1-2 live plo is a lot of flop seeing with flats or single raises). But c/c is fine too.

On the flop, with 4 people and $100 in the pot, donking pot is okay. If you were a little deeper (but not too much deeper) I would strongly prefer the c/shove as suggested by Kc (even with the stacks as they are it's marginally preferable). If you were much deeper, I like c/cing, and if you were ridiculously deep, I like check/raising. But even donking pot into the raiser should really weed out most of his non-monsters as the board is middle rainbow and he should really need A8xx or better to do anything other than fold (obviously, from your opponent's perspective without having seen what you have, some draws are better than A8xx here, but I'm speaking about non-drawing hands). The real problem is that you have two others behind - if this was heads up or maybe 3 way, donking pot would be a better choice than it is 4-handed. And as Kc says, the others behind can mean dead money when you check/shove.

Once you donk the flop and get one caller, you have to shove turn with what you have left, even if the board pairs imo (I'm not sure what I think about blind shoving in plo games, but I play online so obviously it doesn't come up). Granted, he might call you light, but checking is terrible unless you're trying to trap c/r him (with deeper stacks, obviously) and he's a total moron who will bet any time the flop bettor checks to him on the turn (there are such people in plo... lol).

I don't think the backdoor spades makes a difference to me in this particular hand, but always be aware of backdoor draws.

darryl Feb 26, 2012 6:24pm

Thanks for all the advice. Looking back, I like the idea (based on stack sizes) of the check raise AI. I'll have to remember for the future when I'm strong with a shortish stack and OOP.

For what it's worth. I did push the turn blind. The villain saw the turn was another Ace (of course FML) and he called. He surprisingly only had a pair of aces when he called the flop, so I was up against trips. River was a blank and I lost. Interestingly the players could have sworn I had a straight and took them and the dealer a few moments to realize I had nothing.


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