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Old Nov 11, 2006, 2:20am   #1
chriscorn
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Default Player Notes

I would really like to spend more time taking notes on players but am not always sure what to say about them and usually just end up putting DONK in someones note box when they get a lucky suckout on me...so just recently thought of copying and pasting key hands into their notes section from hands history....I think it's a pretty good idea...anyones thoughts on this?
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Old Nov 11, 2006, 3:17am   #2
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I think an entire hand history is too long, notes should be quick to read. But you can give an extremely short resumé of a hand history like "check-raise bluffed when board paired" or something.
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Old Nov 11, 2006, 4:25am   #3
staphros
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I play SNG mainly - but I use the following - I found it on another site and changed it slightly.

I think it can be too much information for some people but I like it - I put it next to most people I play and just fill it out as I go.

General(Tricky/Good/Ok/Poor)
Style(Tight/Semi-Tight/Loose)/(Maniac/Agg/Solid/Caller/Raiser/Passive)
Steal(POTSTL/NO PS) :: (BLUFFER!)
TELL(Tell descriptor) :: Slow Play(YES/NO)
Bets: (Draw / Top pair / TP weak kicker / Mid pair / Low pair / trips, etc)
Doesn't Bet: (Draw / Top pair / Mid pair / Weak kicker / Low pair, etc)
All In: (Cards)
PTRAISE: (Cards) NOPOTRAISE: (Cards) TRAIN: (Cards) plays: (Cards)
Personal:
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Old Nov 11, 2006, 6:10am   #4
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Staphros has some good advice there and I am going to use some of it to better organize my own disheveled notes.

I personally give each player a letter grade (A-F) as to their abilities, using + for tight and - for loose and an AG for aggressive. I make note of as many hands that they show that I am able, as well as any hand out of the ordinary and note their position (T-7o UTG, E,M or L position), as well as any bets that I might not consider "normal." I also make note of whether they are chatterbox dicks or polite, sharks or fish, tilters or rocks, stations, bluffers or whatever you can think of that will remind you at a later date of how they were playing.

Characterize them but don't always believe your own notes. Once in a while that habitual blind stealer gets dealt a monster on the button.

Even a simple X to indicate you have played against them before will let you know that they very well may have notes on you so be careful not to fall into the same routine.
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Old Nov 11, 2006, 9:56am   #5
staphros
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To add to my first post I use the first line General(Tricky/Good/Ok/Poor)
as a summary.

Though not set in stone if a player makes 2 mistakes I delete tricky. Then if they make 3 mistakes I delete good. ETC.

However with player notes always be prepared to revise them.

I was playing a $5 SNG with a guy I had labeled a Loose maniac (I took all his chips pretty quick when i originally played him).

I was up against the same guy about 3 months later and his game was totally different (I didn't remember him but checked my notes).

I think he was very green when I first played him and was playing WPT/WSOP style.

However he now had a pretty tight game and much better hand selection.
Therefore I updated my notes and put him back as fair/good.

Also make sure you don't label some players too fast as they may switch up/down gears if its a tournement and rellying on quickly judged notes can cost you bad in this case.
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Old Nov 11, 2006, 10:48am   #6
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On all hands that are shown down check the hand history if the cards are not shown and check the betting. I have notes on players who bet extremely strong with middle pair on the flop but not so strong with top pair. This sort of note can earn a lot of money as long as they aren't a tricky player. My notes are similar to staphros but not as detailed. I also note what games and limits they play.
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Old Nov 13, 2006, 6:54am   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by staphros View Post
I play SNG mainly - but I use the following - I found it on another site and changed it slightly.

I think it can be too much information for some people but I like it - I put it next to most people I play and just fill it out as I go.

General(Tricky/Good/Ok/Poor)
Style(Tight/Semi-Tight/Loose)/(Maniac/Agg/Solid/Caller/Raiser/Passive)
Steal(POTSTL/NO PS) :: (BLUFFER!)
TELL(Tell descriptor) :: Slow Play(YES/NO)
Bets: (Draw / Top pair / TP weak kicker / Mid pair / Low pair / trips, etc)
Doesn't Bet: (Draw / Top pair / Mid pair / Weak kicker / Low pair, etc)
All In: (Cards)
PTRAISE: (Cards) NOPOTRAISE: (Cards) TRAIN: (Cards) plays: (Cards)
Personal:
What is "TRAIN"?

PTRAISE meaning when the raise a bet to the amount of the pot?

NOPOTRAISE???
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Old Nov 13, 2006, 12:20pm   #8
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What I find very usefull is making notes of people who like to pay big for draws. If they call down with middle pair. people who allways call C-bet but fold the turn. if they C-bet or not if they didn't hit the flop. If they allways call a preflop raise if they have allready limped.

It helps you to get max value from the right people, and also to not waist chips on C-betting if you know they are gonna call it with bottom pair or worse.
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Old Nov 13, 2006, 7:36pm   #9
staphros
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscorn View Post
What is "TRAIN"?

PTRAISE meaning when the raise a bet to the amount of the pot?

NOPOTRAISE???

Train is where you value bet on each street and they just call with nothing / weak hand.

Say they have second pair and you have a set.
After flop you bet 1/4 of pot and they instant call. Same on turn and river.
Thus they have been a train (hard to stop a locomotive instantly).

PTRAISE is exactly that - a pot size raise (Mainly for NL obv). I only fill this one in occasionally but it is good to know what there requirements are for pot raises.

No pot raises (This is basically the opposite - I thought it was redundant at first but it is usefull if the just min raise with JJ or similar when a pot raise mabe more appropriate - thus indication weak style)
Some people will say they don't need this attribute in the notes but I use it - its good to know what people don't do as well as what they do - if that makes sense.

However, I adapted these fromthe originals so you can just take mine and reword it to how you think.


Original is:
(Tricky/Good/Ok/Poor) :: (Tight/Semi-Tight/Loose)/(Maniac/Agg/Solid/Caller/Passive) :: (PSER / NO PS) :: (BLUFFER!)
(Tell descriptor)
Bets: (Draw / Top pair / TP weak kicker / Mid pair / Low pair / trips, etc)
No Bets: (Draw / Top pair / Mid pair / Weak kicker / Low pair, etc)
PR: (Cards) NOPR: (Cards) TRN: (Cards)
p: (Cards)

_____________

Mine:
General(Tricky/Good/Ok/Poor)
Style(Tight/Semi-Tight/Loose)/(Maniac/Agg/Solid/Caller/Raiser/Passive)
Steal(POTSTL/NO PS) :: (BLUFFER!)
TELL(Tell descriptor) :: Slow Play(YES/NO)
Bets: (Draw / Top pair / TP weak kicker / Mid pair / Low pair / trips, etc)
Doesn't Bet: (Draw / Top pair / Mid pair / Weak kicker / Low pair, etc)
All In: (Cards)
PTRAISE: (Cards) NOPOTRAISE: (Cards) TRAIN: (Cards) plays: (Cards)
Personal:


http://www.tightpoker.com/player_notes.html

See its only slightly different - plus i changed a bit of the wording.
I don't think one is better than the other but my thinking / playing style is probably a bit different than the original players.

Also for sites like full tilt I exclude the top line as you can use the colors to mark a player. I use RED - Shark/Tricky, Green - neutral, Dark Blue Fish/Poor.
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Old Nov 13, 2006, 10:07pm   #10
chriscorn
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Do you think it is important, when noting someones raising hands, to note if it was short handed or long handed? or even get more specific 3-4 handed, 5-6 handed, or long handed...?

EDIT: It's probably harder to make notes for tourney play than cash games because of all the different stages in a tournament...is that true?
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Last edited by chriscorn; Nov 13, 2006 at 10:12pm.
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