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Old Jun 02, 2012, 3:44pm   #71
balthazarr
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did i answer your questions? i'll happily take another run at them.
yes, thank you, but now I have some new questions.

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so far, all the data we have suggests that k = 0 and Λ = ΛE with narrow margins of error of the order of ~0.5%, ergo we almost certainly live in an accelerating universe.
thats kinda lame, i'd like my universe to collapse. It would allow cool theories and make for better movies.

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one might also observe that your argument is demonstrably bust without recourse to anything more than the observation that within this possibly infinite universe all events have consequences (i.e. all events are causes) and there are no acausal events.
didnt observation on a quantum mechanical scale suggest that there are acausal events?

what if causality is biased by our limited perception of reality and doesnt work on a really small or infinetly big scale?
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Old Jun 02, 2012, 8:30pm   #72
killcrazy
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did i answer your questions? i'll happily take another run at them.
yes, thank you, but now I have some new questions.
good, i hope none of them are about quantum mechanics.

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so far, all the data we have suggests that k = 0 and Λ = ΛE with narrow margins of error of the order of ~0.5%, ergo we almost certainly live in an accelerating universe.
thats kinda lame, i'd like my universe to collapse. It would allow cool theories and make for better movies.
oh there are plenty fun theories to be had.

at some point the universe will probably reach maximum entropy at which point everything just stops ("heat death"). this phenomenon can be observed on a local scale when on hold on the phone trying to get through to virgin media to find out why the fuck the internet is fucked for the fourth fucking time this week.

or protons might decay. it won't happen for about 10^32 years and it would be a substantial violation of our current model of physics, but you could probably get a movie out of that?

one of the most interesting ideas, which might even grant you a big crunch phase, is the suggestion that our universe may exist on a 3 dimensional brane which is fluttering about in higher dimensional space. periodically these branes collide, manifesting in repeated big bangs on those branes. i've seen a few different models built around this idea, but the one with the most meat behind it is Steinhardt-Turok. happy googling.

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didnt observation on a quantum mechanical scale suggest that there are acausal events?
uh, maybe? can you point me at a source?

what you do have in quantum mechanics is the whole probability bollocks. whereas in classical physics you have the nice simple determinism of if A then B, in quantum mechanics you have a range of possible outcomes. though it's worth mentioning that the range of possible outcomes is well defined and predictable, probabilistically speaking. we aren't in deepak chopra anything can happen at any time because the waveform collapses and you are the supreme being quantum moksha horsecocks.

is that what you were thinking of? or do i need to go and do some more reading? i'm not a professional scientist so i don't pretend to have the first fucking clue about quantum mechanics.

worthy of note though, is that just because we can't find the cause right now doesn't mean the cause isn't there, it just means that we've only been doing teh science for a few centuries and the universe is a fucking weird place. it's like liverpool only with slightly better beer and fewer women that look like they've been hit in the face with steam shovels.

so, for instance, spontaneous emission (in which an atom decays from an excited state to a lower or ground state with the emission of a photon) was considered acausal for a time. quantum mechanics and its ever so helpful virtual particles solves this mystery, although one might ask what causes the virtual particles to appear...but fortunately i asked, so you can't

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what if causality is biased by our limited perception of reality and doesnt work on a really small or infinetly big scale?
well, we've kinda drifted into the realm of the unknowable here, no? whether the reality we perceive is absolute reality, or there is some pseudodivine entity playing billards with all these particles, doesn't really make a difference to anything from our point of view. we lack the capacity of function on that level, all we have is our mundane reality. it's where we live, it's where all our stuff is, if we want to learn more about ourselves, the universe and their respective functions, that's where we should look.

Kc
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 1:33am   #73
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uh, maybe? can you point me at a source?
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so, for instance, spontaneous emission (in which an atom decays from an excited state to a lower or ground state with the emission of a photon) was considered acausal for a time. quantum mechanics and its ever so helpful virtual particles solves this mystery, although one might ask what causes the virtual particles to appear...but fortunately i asked, so you can't
those were the examples I was thinking of, but upon further review acausal should be replaced with something like "objectively random".

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happy googling.
ive just read some articles about that brane theory, phantom dark energy, supersymmetry, superdeterminism, bells theorem, hidden-variable theories, quantum tunneling and superfluid vacuums. and then my brain melted.

suffice it to say that I didnt grasp much of it first try. Which also means that I will spare you further questions on this topic because I need a better understanding to be able to come up with something interesting.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 2:09am   #74
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those were the examples I was thinking of, but upon further review acausal should be replaced with something like "objectively random".
the..."thing" underlying the process (and the models and equations that describe it) is deterministic, but which of the possible outcomes manifests is not.

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ive just read some articles about that brane theory, phantom dark energy, supersymmetry, superdeterminism, bells theorem, hidden-variable theories, quantum tunneling and superfluid vacuums. and then my brain melted.
yup.

it's incredibly hard to get your head around this kind of stuff any way other than mathematically, and even that is like trying to take a cat to the vet. for instance; you can't imagine what a hypercube looks like, because it's a 4 dimensional object and every object you have ever seen is three dimensional. whether you try to conceive of its appearance in four dimensions, or how it would manifest in three dimensions, you just have no frame of reference. now try to figure out how it would behave if it was made of cake and someone threw a tennis ball at it. no chance.

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suffice it to say that I didnt grasp much of it first try. Which also means that I will spare you further questions on this topic because I need a better understanding to be able to come up with something interesting.
well, i like physics. i'll take a shot at any question you do have. (hint: relativistic physics please )

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