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Old Dec 16, 2013, 11:01pm   #1
darryl
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Default Potted on the river without the nuts

This was a live 1-3 PLO game from a week or two ago and I'm trying to remember the hand.
Since I don't fully remember it, I'll post it in the lounge where the three lurkers may actually see it. I was sitting on maybe $400 or so. Villain had me covered.

I'm dealt something with JcTc and lets say 76. I'm late position, villain is on the button.
Preflop was raised to like 10. Lets say 4 people in the hand. I flop I want to say a pair with a wrap. So we'll go with T85 one club. check check, I pot it. Villain asks to see my stack, I show him. He thinks for a while and calls. Other two fold.

Turn is a rag club, let's say a 2. I'm a bit nervous with the smooth call that he may have a set. I check. He checks right after me.
River is another club, let's say a 3 so the board was unpaired giving me a J high flush.
I put out $100.
Villain starts talking to me, like, "really" that sort of thing. Then after a while he eventually pots it which would put me all in.
I thought for quite a while.
So is this an easy fold. Or is he trying to naked ace bluff me or something similar. What would he raise me with besides the nuts or something that tells him I don't have the nuts? BTW, I had been playing fairly meek. And he seemed fairly competant.

-d
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Old Dec 17, 2013, 12:53pm   #2
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really?
you're going to bet here?
oh man that sucks.
i really hate that you did that.
fml.
now i raise you all my money.
i wonder what that means.

Kc
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Old Dec 19, 2013, 5:17pm   #3
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Originally Posted by darryl View Post
What would he raise me with besides the nuts or something that tells him I don't have the nuts?
Nothing.

Would be an epic level to pot there without the nuts after giving you the speech.
Definitely not something I'd expect a stranger at a casino to pull off. Would be a somewhat tough spot at my homegame because everyone tries to one-up each other for bragging rights.
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Old Dec 20, 2013, 6:01pm   #4
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I've got a lot to learn about this game.

So checking with the third nuts oop on the river would have been better.
So, say I check and he pots the river, I just fold then, right?

Now, how often are naked ace bluffs done at the tables? I figured they would be more prevelant, at least to the point where this would hand would be more of a valid hand to post.
Maybe I tend to do them too much or something, over all the amount of times I do them, ends up being pretty profitable.
Or do I just deserve a face palm?

-d
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Old Dec 21, 2013, 3:51am   #5
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So checking with the third nuts oop on the river would have been better.
Who said that? I'd bet less to encourage a curious call from a lower flush or something random.
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Old Dec 21, 2013, 4:41am   #6
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Quote:
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So checking with the third nuts oop on the river would have been better.
Who said that? I'd bet less to encourage a curious call from a lower flush or something random.
KC said "You're going to bet here?" So I took that to mean my river bet was bad. Or maybe I misunderstood.

So you would like a bet of maybe $50 or $75 or so better then?

-d
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Old Dec 21, 2013, 5:30am   #7
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KC said "You're going to bet here?" So I took that to mean my river bet was bad. Or maybe I misunderstood.
I think he was mimicking the guy giving 'the speech'.

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So you would like a bet of maybe $50 or $75 or so better then?
somewhere between 1/2 and 3/4 pot seems fine to me
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Old Dec 21, 2013, 2:49pm   #8
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I've got a lot to learn about this game.
epitaph of every omaha player.

Quote:
So checking with the third nuts oop on the river would have been better.
no, you should valuebet. it's a backdoor flush so it's reasonably well disguised. there's a bunch of stuff can pay you off; sets, funky two pairs, there's also a wheel out there.

Quote:
So, say I check and he pots the river, I just fold then, right?
in this scenario you should probably call. consider your line. pot check check. very weak. looks like you had something like JT9X and never improved. he's pretty much obliged to try and push you off the hand. betting pot would imply a mix of pure bluffs and big flushes. medium strong hands probably go a bit smaller.

Quote:
Now, how often are naked ace bluffs done at the tables?
hard to say. bluffing when you happen to have the ace isn't the same as a naked ace bluff.

Quote:
Maybe I tend to do them too much or something, over all the amount of times I do them, ends up being pretty profitable.
when i play omaha, i want a table where people call too much, ergo i very rarely bluff. when i do it's in a small pot with advertising value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by balthazarr
I think he was mimicking the guy giving 'the speech'.
winner.

oh man this sucks + raise = nuts.

Kc
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Old Dec 25, 2013, 11:14am   #9
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Unless you have metagame with this guy the really speech then raise is always the nuts. Fold and move on.
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Old Dec 29, 2013, 10:20pm   #10
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Okay,
So I wasn't as far off as I thought. I totally misunderstood what you originally said KC, I got it now. Didn't realize you were speaking from the Villain's perspective. Now it makes sense.

So I guess I based my decision to call on me being in the villain's shoes which I guess was a bad idea. I'll often times give a speech before doing a big bluff - like if I had the ace or something. So based on that, I thought I was good enough times to make it profitable to call. In this case he did have the nuts (obviously).

So the thing I've learned is playing against you guys (or standard decent players), I should give a speech, then repot when I have the nut blocker - at least until the metagame kicks in.

Thanks for the advice.

-d
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