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Old Sep 17, 2014, 12:33am   #1
bogogota
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Default Poker Stars Stole $600 from me

Here are the simple facts:

1. I have never played on Poker Stars and wanted to give it a try, opened an account and deposited $600 with my visa.

2. My account was immediately frozen, I didn't play a single hand of poker or even sit at a table.

3. They requested that I send documents that contain in my opinion very sensitive information and that could be used to steal my identity, so I said "No thanks, please refund my money."

4. They refused to refund my money, at best this is extortion, at worst blatant theft.

5. My advice, if you don't want to provide sensitive personal information or have your money stolen. Avoid Poker Stars.
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Old Sep 17, 2014, 1:42am   #2
killcrazy
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1. black text on a blue background doesn't work and you're a cock for using it.

2. if you'd bothered to read the terms and conditions on pokerstars, or indeed any other internet gambling emporium, you would realise that the information they are requesting is standard. if you had half a brain in your head you'd be glad of the level of security they provide when handling your money.

3. if what you say is true, which is almost certainly isn't, then there is an incredibly simple solution to your problem, but i'm not going to tell you what it is because i think evolution is a good idea.

Kc
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Old Sep 17, 2014, 2:28am   #3
bogogota
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Here are the simple facts:

1. I have never played on Poker Stars and wanted to give it a try, opened an account and deposited $600 with my visa.

2. My account was immediately frozen, I didn't play a single hand of poker or even sit at a table.

3. They requested that I send documents that contain in my opinion very sensitive information and that could be used to steal my identity, so I said "No thanks, please refund my money."

4. They refused to refund my money, at best this is extortion, at worst blatant theft.

5. My advice, if you don't want to provide sensitive personal information or have your money stolen. Avoid Poker Stars.
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Old Sep 17, 2014, 2:35am   #4
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It is 100% true. Why on earth would I make it up? First you say it is common place then you say you don't believe it. Which is it?

You know what they say about people who attack the speaker instead of the argument killcrazey.

You are just another cyberbully punk who attacks people on the internet becuase you don't have the guts to do it in real life.

The point is if I had know that they do this I never would have deposited money with them, if you feel the same then don't.
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Old Sep 17, 2014, 3:54am   #5
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I did read the T&C. Here is the section that apparently means if you do not provide sensitive personal information they will refuse to refund your money:

4.3you will need to provide us with certain personal details about yourself (including details regarding your methods of payment) as well as (for the purposes of using the Service via the Mobile Software) consenting to our use of location-based services (LBS) to detect your geographic location, for the purpose of using the Service. PokerStars will process your personal details in compliance with the data protection laws and regulations of the Isle of Man, all in accordance with and as set out in our Privacy Policy. By the way here is the T&C section that apparently means if you do not provide sensitive personal information they will refuse to refund your money:

Not even broadly interpreted does this section imply that.

By the way, evolution is not an idea, it is a process. What exactly do think is at play here: mutation, genetic drift, natural selection, sexual selection? Do you think I am stupid and poorer, therefore have a reduced fecundity or that my offspring will not survive? If so you have a really poor understanding of population dynamics and distribution of wealth.


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Old Sep 17, 2014, 4:43am   #6
killcrazy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogogota View Post
It is 100% true. Why on earth would I make it up?
i didn't say you made it up. it's more likely that you've omitted or misunderstood something. i'm erring towards the latter.

Quote:
First you say it is common place then you say you don't believe it. Which is it?
both; stars' practices are at or above the industry standard, and i have seen too many stories like yours that invariably end with the user have done something retarded or been unreasonable.

if you hadn't come in accusing pokerstars of extortion because they want you to prove your identity before processing funds in line with the terms and conditions you agreed to when you signed up, i might consider you more credible and be slightly more sympathetic, but you did so i don't and i'm not.

Quote:
You know what they say about people who attack the speaker instead of the argument killcrazey.
actually i attacked both, such as they were. your argument is strewn with gaping defects in logic. that isn't logic's fault.

Quote:
You are just another cyberbully punk who attacks people on the internet becuase you don't have the guts to do it in real life.
if you like.

Quote:
The point is if I had know that they do this I never would have deposited money with them, if you feel the same then don't.
well shit, it feels like this whole misunderstanding could have easily been avoided if pokerstars had taken the time to explain their policy on fund transfers and account verification. perhaps they could publish it on their website so that everyone could read it before trying to send them substantial amounts of money.

maybe it could say something like this:

"As part of PokerStars' licensing agreement and in compliance with anti-money laundering legislation, Users need to be aware they may be required to produce personal documentation (such as Government issued ID, bank statements and utility bills) upon request in order for their deposit or cashout to be processed. This allows PokerStars to help protect the Users and prevents PokerStars from being used as a vehicle for money laundering or fraud."

granted i'm not a lawyer, but that seems both robust and reasonable to me.

lets pause for a moment and ask ourselves exactly why you are terrified of providing this documentation to pokerstars...what exactly do you expect them to do with a picture of your passport? you think they're going to print it out and use it to smuggle black tar heroin into florida? they can do far more with your credit card number than they could with your bank account details, and you've already told them where you live so what the fuck are they going to do with proof of your address?

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Old Sep 17, 2014, 9:11pm   #7
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I am not surprised you are not a lawyer because you are a fucking idiot.

1. The wording of their T&C, even when broadly interpreted (do you understand what that means or do I have to translate it into moronic), does not come close to what they requested.

2. You make so many wildly fanciful assumprions that I cannot keep track of them and then when you cannot comprehend the simple words I use you chalk your stupidity to flawed logic on my behalf.

Speaking of evolution, why don't you do the world a favor and put a bullet in your head before you reproduce, oh let me guess, you have already "fathered" 5 future assholes with 5 different "baby moms", how close am I?
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Old Sep 18, 2014, 2:31am   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogogota View Post
I am not surprised you are not a lawyer because you are a fucking idiot.
pretty much. how is being a genius working out for you?

Quote:
1. The wording of their T&C, even when broadly interpreted (do you understand what that means or do I have to translate it into moronic), does not come close to what they requested.
"As part of PokerStars' licensing agreement and in compliance with anti-money laundering legislation, Users need to be aware they may be required to produce personal documentation (such as Government issued ID, bank statements and utility bills) upon request in order for their deposit or cashout to be processed. This allows PokerStars to help protect the Users and prevents PokerStars from being used as a vehicle for money laundering or fraud."

unless they're asking you for a dna sample and a complete sexual history, i'm going to go with, "you're wrong".

Quote:
2. You make so many wildly fanciful assumprions that I cannot keep track of them and then when you cannot comprehend the simple words I use you chalk your stupidity to flawed logic on my behalf.
i quite like the sound of a fanciful assumprion. it sounds like something that nerdycute baker girl on masterchef would make. i'm thinking choux pastry with buttercream inside and chocolate poured over it...come to think of it, that's a profiterole...i wonder if there's somewhere i can get profiteroles at 2 in the morning...

we'll revisit this in a moment.

Quote:
Speaking of evolution, why don't you do the world a favor and put a bullet in your head before you reproduce, oh let me guess, you have already "fathered" 5 future assholes with 5 different "baby moms", how close am I?
well, you've correctly guessed my gender? that's probably closer to the toilet than you usually manage before disgracing yourself.

returning to the profiteroles:

that you choose to come in giving it the "pokerstars are thieves and extortionists" rather than the "i've had a problem with pokerstars, can anyone offer some advice?" is pretty telling.

from other comments you've made, it seems like you genuinely believe that pokerstars is some kind of outlaw operation whose business model is centred around scamming unsuspecting customers and holding up stagecoaches. this is simply ridiculous.

then there are the obvious lies you've told, like how you've been successful on other sites and they've never asked you to provide documentation to process a transfer, which is patent bullshit. i've done business with all the companies you list, in fact i've done business with dozens of online poker rooms, casinos, and bookmakers, and they have all, without exception, requested the documents pokerstars are asking you for.

finally, again, we must ask why you are opposed to providing the very reasonable documents pokerstars request, that they make clear they will request in their terms and conditions, which they are required to verify by law before processing transfers? you cite identity theft as a concern, which may be valid if they were some guy selling genuine snake oil from the back of a van but utterly absurd when they are a licensed operator required by law to demand and process the documents in question in order to perform the actions you requested. pokerstars are not interested in stealing your identity, and your credit card information is infinitely more valuable and exploitable than anything they have asked you to provide.

the weight of evidence is very much on pokerstars' side. if you want to stop behaving like a petulant child and present information pertaining to something other than your inexperience, immaturity, and questionable character, i'll be more than happy to look at it and give you the benefit of my 15 years professional experience in this industry. if you would prefer to continue trying to insult me, that's fine too, i will use you as a chew toy for the amusement of the rail.

Kc
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Old Sep 19, 2014, 3:17am   #9
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KC, I would say don't feed the trolls except that we would have zero activity on the forum if I did. Well, minus me saying that.

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Old Sep 19, 2014, 3:30pm   #10
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Everything killcrazy said is accurate
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