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Old May 03, 2004, 3:14am   #1
ABRAXAS
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Default looking for advice from people that have been there

lets see...i have been playing online poker for about 8 months now. Started out playing stts, and have now switched to ring games with a few stts mixed in for fun. in the midst of running my business, i have been averaging 40 hours a week playing poker. Currently i play 3/6 limit and pot limit 50. The limit is still very erratic; alot of swings although i am up overall, and have primarily winning sessions given enough time at the table. i normally play on 3-4 tables at a time.
My questions are these: Are the swings inevitable at this level of play, and perhaps at any level? or should i be able to master this level regardless. Any idea of what i should be able to average per hour in profit at these stakes? i read somewhere that one bb per hour on limit tables is about average. Should i increase my stakes, or still concentrate on controlling the swings i am experiencing. is the general smart thing to do increase my stakes as my bankroll increases, or should i make a leap now, or is the easier money at any certain level in general? Basically looking for any advice/stories that some of the pros might give away concerning moving up the bankroll ladder.

good luck on the tables
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Old Jun 08, 2004, 4:07am   #2
Notjitsu
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I usually play a table of 3/6 kill game at UB along with two games of 100NL over at party.

The 50 PL is nowheres near the same level of money as the 3/6. I bet thats why 3/6 seems so erratic.

As for swings, I was sitting at a 3/6 regular game the other day, and just dumped 250 in a few hours. Just a ridiculous beating. But I don't sweat it, because in the long run, it'll work itself out.

As for inevitablility...have you ever played yahtzee? Poker sessions are a lot like yahtzee. Some days, you just can't roll sixes. Statistically, it doesn't make sense, but they just don't come, and you end up taking a 12 in the second column, and don't make your bonus and end up with a 1250.
(my greatgrandmother played a lot of yahtzee with me as a child)

Same with poker, somedays the odds just don't pay off. Whats important, is that you ignore outcomes, and just play the right way regardless. But if you're winning consistently overall, you probably have already figured all this stuff out.
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Old Jun 08, 2004, 2:42pm   #3
vcDragon
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Notjitsu, when you are having one of those poker days that you just 'can't roll sixes' do you continue playing or would it be best to call it a day?

I totally understand days when nothing seems to go your way even when the odds are in your favour.

Nowdays if I'm halfway through a session and it is 'one of those days' i just quit as i don't feel its possible for me to win.
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Old Jun 08, 2004, 4:17pm   #4
MicroShark
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I'm not Notjitsu (as opposed to NotNotjitsu), and i'm not even that good a poker player, but i can answer theoretically: from a pure probability perspective, provided you're better than your opponents by enough to overcome the rake, you want to keep playing. In fact, because playing one more hand always has a positive expected value, you theoretically ALWAYS want to play as much poker as possible!

Now, from a practical perspective, this is where i need more experience to give a good answer. Even if you're just getting bad cards, perhaps those bad cards will undermine your confidence so that you start misplaying hands when you DO have good ones (tilt, or at least a mild variation of it). Or perhaps you're losing money because the table's too tough, or you don't really have a good read on your opponents, or.... So i'll leave that to the more experienced players to opine on.

I tried moving up a limit yesterday* and got NOTHING in terms of cards. I was vaguely conscious of the tendency to play the almost-marginal hands that i shouldn't have, but i think i (mostly) fought that tendency. When i felt myself getting sleepy and less likely to stay disciplined, then i walked away.

---
*OK, from micro-micro-limit to just micro-limit (0.05-0.10), but still a psychological jump for a novice like me.
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Old Jun 09, 2004, 3:05pm   #5
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Here's an analogy:

Could anything happen at the table where you would stop playing AA for the day? Could you get chased down by 46o and then say "No more AA for me?" I hope not, because AA is profitable hand on avg.

Similarly, if playing good poker at the table is profitable on avg., why would I stop playing based on a few hours going poorly?

Now if I start playing bad poker, or poker not good enough to win at the table, then hopefully, I will recognize that and walk away.

But in general, I think we can recognize the difference between taking a few bad beats/not hitting flops vs. being outplayed/acting stupid.
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Old Jun 11, 2004, 6:37pm   #6
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I'll prefece my opinion by saying I still have alot to learn. I'll answer some of your questions, the others are for players with more experience. I've come to believe you should be able to win at any limit you play at and permature moving up does not solve any problems. So if it's 3/6 you should at least double your money from 200xbb before moving up (its easier to say than do for me). I also play 3 games at once and do well over time. My problem has been once I build my bankroll up a little I get greedy/bored and move up to 5/10 limit and NL. I start off doing well and then I have a bad day and get nervous. For example two weeks ago I was playing 5-10 at the casino and dropped $400 and got nervous/upset. I had AA crack KK crack, AK crack and a host of bad beats to really lose players. I wasn't nervous because I lost money, I was nervous because I digging into my original bankroll which wasn't equipped to handle this big of swing. Though this was the casino I've done it a coulple times on line as well. I have some money so thats not the major issue, I just don't like the idea of grabbing more to play higher limits. I think its better to build it up, gain the experience and move up. Only a real small % can make it big in a year. For those who don't I think discipline and experience will help them payoff big in the long run.
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Old Jun 11, 2004, 7:39pm   #7
MicroShark
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I was going to post this interesting link on a separate thread, but it seems to be relevant here:

http://www.kingscascade.com/Step_by_Step.html

It's a plan for progressing up from the micro limits to $5-$10. On his home page, the author says he is now playing 5-10 with a bankroll of $3K, so it looks like all the discipline has paid off.

I found that link on this fascinating thread on 2+2's forum.
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Old Jun 11, 2004, 8:49pm   #8
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ok micro....those links rock
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Old Aug 08, 2004, 4:18am   #9
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I may get a bunch of people jumping sideways on this but I think playing more than one table at a time is a recipe for disaster!!!

You don't get many tells on internet poker but there are a lot of things to watch for. Like;

1) Did they click on the call any button or the check button (before it got to them)

2) Are the people behind you a big stack or small stack - - sometimes the small stack will go all-in instead of just call - - so you have to figure is the hand worth the amount of their stack.

3) What position is the bettor in?

4) If too many hands is causing you to play or fold based just on your cards and not by the flow of the hand, then your screwing up!!

The point is - - -If your poping back and forth from table to table, you could miss any of these things or more!!

Too many possible mistakes when your trying to keep up with muliple tables!!
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