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Old Apr 26, 2005, 3:48pm   #11
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Derived from the Latin verb rapere 'to snatch away hastily; carry off by force'.

The English word did indeed originally have the same meaning. It still can be used in the sense of seizing or plundering.
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Old Apr 26, 2005, 3:53pm   #12
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Understanding the intent behind the word is of greater importance than diction itself however.

So, I ask you, how is a word offensive? Like a sword it only becomes a weapon when used it in that manner.
Not quite. Any weapon has, as part of its design, the threat of consequence when unleashed. Thus, if someone flashed a knife at me in the street, me saying 'hey it's only a knife if he uses it' may, strictly, be true, but does fuck all for my heart rate. What is the intent of a man with a knife? To use it or not? I am entitled to call for help even if I don't know the answer.

The problem with words - written word perhaps even more than the spoken - is that here too the intent can be unknown. Words (like weapons) can be out in the open, and the person speaking/writing may intend something which the listener/reader wholly misunderstands. Same too with actions - the man who comes across as an office flirt to one woman can come across as a pest to the next.

As it happens, I'm with Kc on the use of 'rape' in a non-sexual way. It isn't out of place. It's like saying that the countryside is raped by heavy industry etc..... But I also hold that we have a duty to take care with our choice of words, not just for fear of offending, but more because misunderstandings at the most basic level can lead to horrific misunderstandings down the line. Clarity in communication is important.
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Old Apr 26, 2005, 4:14pm   #13
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Originally Posted by Iestyn75
Not quite. Any weapon has, as part of its design, the threat of consequence when unleashed.
That's a very fine hair you're attempting to split, let us procede and expand.

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Thus, if someone flashed a knife at me in the street, me saying 'hey it's only a knife if he uses it' may, strictly, be true, but does fuck all for my heart rate. What is the intent of a man with a knife? To use it or not? I am entitled to call for help even if I don't know the answer.
correct, the intent and the action is what's important, not the object itself.

this getting uppity about the word gay is like me going, "OMFG! HE'S GOING TO STAB ME WITH HIS KEYS!" when I see someone unlocking his car door.

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The problem with words - written word perhaps even more than the spoken - is that here too the intent can be unknown.
Bollocks, when I say "that dog is gay" i mean "that dog is a thing that i do not like", there is no implied subtext, antihomosexual or otherwise. Passive aggressive my arse.

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Words (like weapons) can be out in the open, and the person speaking/writing may intend something which the listener/reader wholly misunderstands.
Yes and the error usually lies with the listener, who usually has some kind of pseudoliberal horsecrap going on in his own head.

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As it happens, I'm with Kc on the use of 'rape' in a non-sexual way. It isn't out of place. It's like saying that the countryside is raped by heavy industry etc..... But I also hold that we have a duty to take care with our choice of words, not just for fear of offending, but more because misunderstandings at the most basic level can lead to horrific misunderstandings down the line. Clarity in communication is important.
And I think anyone who gets bent out of shape about a word can suck my balls.

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Old Apr 26, 2005, 4:29pm   #14
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Kc - one thing is for sure, your remarkable clarity with the written word leaves absolutely no room for misunderstanding.

I said
Quote:
Words (like weapons) can be out in the open, and the person speaking/writing may intend something which the listener/reader wholly misunderstands.
Kc replied
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Yes and the error usually lies with the listener, who usually has some kind of pseudoliberal horsecrap going on in his own head.
I wasn't actually referring to just the sort of language which gets on the tits of the pseudoliberals. Pseudo-fascists can get the wrong end of the stick as well and react accordingly. They often do. Your comment implies that if you misunderstood me it was your error, not mine. (That's an 'if'; I don't think you have misunderstood me, any more than I have misunderstood you.)[/quote]
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Old Apr 26, 2005, 5:03pm   #15
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[quote="killcrazy
Bollocks, when I say "that dog is gay" i mean "that dog is a thing that i do not like", there is no implied subtext, antihomosexual or otherwise. Passive aggressive my arse.
[/quote]

If you use gay to describe things you don't like, it implies you don't like gays. There is really no two ways around that.

Hence, why I could see this being offensive for someone who is gay, if you choose to dislike them based solely on their sexual orientation.

Would it be appropriate if you called the dog a n*gger dog because you didn't like it? Or do you consider this the same thing, and okay?

You made a bunch of other comments, but I don't feel up to commenting on them. I posted my last post in about 2 seconds before I went to a job interview - The point of my holocaust example was just to give another example. It's not really of relevance whether it is a verb or a noun.
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Old Apr 26, 2005, 5:08pm   #16
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Also ....

If you had a close friend, or loved one who you knew had a terribly traumatic rape experience.. Would you use this expression with this friend? Would you go up to them and tell them: "Man, I just got raped by my Chemistry exam". Or would you realize that even the word conjures up terrible images and memories for them, and they would likely be offended by your loose usage of the word?

If you answered that you would use the word, then you are kind of heartless and inconsiderate to your friend. If you answered that you wouldn't use the word in this situation, then you obviously see how this could be damaging, and maybe can see how the word usage isn't appropriate, as anyone you said this too could have the same reaction to your friend, as it is likely you wouldn't know if one of your good friends had been raped anyway.
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Old Apr 26, 2005, 5:10pm   #17
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are you one of these guys who go demonstrating when e.g. eminem uses faggot in his lyrics directly assuming he is homophobic?

Man, people... don't you have better things to do? This is pathetic.
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Old Apr 26, 2005, 5:25pm   #18
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Originally Posted by xenthebrain
are you one of these guys who go demonstrating when e.g. eminem uses faggot in his lyrics directly assuming he is homophobic?
No.
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Old Apr 26, 2005, 6:53pm   #19
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Originally Posted by Iestyn75
Kc - one thing is for sure, your remarkable clarity with the written word leaves absolutely no room for misunderstanding.
The pheasant has no agenda.

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I wasn't actually referring to just the sort of language which gets on the tits of the pseudoliberals. Pseudo-fascists can get the wrong end of the stick as well and react accordingly. They often do. Your comment implies that if you misunderstood me it was your error, not mine. (That's an 'if'; I don't think you have misunderstood me, any more than I have misunderstood you.)
Okay. Two trains are travelling towards each other, one from Los Angeles, one from Chicago. Assuming a constant relative acceleration of 10m s^-2, what colour were the engineer's socks?

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Old Apr 26, 2005, 7:16pm   #20
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Originally Posted by ripwalk
If you use gay to describe things you don't like, it implies you don't like gays. There is really no two ways around that.
No, you are wrong. In fact you are so wrong it physically hurts..

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Hence, why I could see this being offensive for someone who is gay, if you choose to dislike them based solely on their sexual orientation.
I fuck men.

I use the word gay to describe crap things.

The former has no bearing on the latter, the latter has no bearing on the former.

I am also baptised catholic and of Irish extraction, nevertheless I turned to a friend and loudly addressed him as a Fenian bastard because we were surrounded by Hearts supporters and I thought it would be funny.

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Would it be appropriate if you called the dog a n*gger dog because you didn't like it? Or do you consider this the same thing, and okay?
Again, no, because nigger is a noun not an adjective. All things considered, I don't think you're particularly well qualified to debate semantics.

How and ever, I've used the word nigger on several occasions. Personally I don't care for it, I find it an ugly unappealing word, I think it's the soft ending. ************

Watch your language.
edited by BBB

My ex is black.

Additionally, I make more Jewish jokes than South Park. My favourite is the observation that the Nazis didn't really mean to kill all those Jews, they just realised that they might be run down and smelly after the trek to the camps so they let them all have a shower. How were they to know that Hebrews are water soluble?

My flatmate is Jewish (or to be more correct his parents are).

I have little doubt this is wasted on you, so perhaps we should debate what it is that makes people put asterisks in what they consider naughty words, as if this somehow makes them less offensive.

Quote:
You made a bunch of other comments, but I don't feel up to commenting on them. I posted my last post in about 2 seconds before I went to a job interview - The point of my holocaust example was just to give another example. It's not really of relevance whether it is a verb or a noun.
It was a pretty shit example lets be fair, if I were you I'd be thankful that Killcrazy took the time to actually dismantle your argument, rather than just tell you how dumb you are.

Kc
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