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Old Jun 24, 2006, 11:20am   #1
Cristi1
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Default Do you think it's correct?

I played on freerolls at bugsysclub. I won a few bonus points (BBP) and i started playing BBP cashgames (you can buy in with BBPs or you can change BBPs into real money). I played there less than 40 hours during one week. I played usualy at one table. During this week I saw hands like:
* the five comunity cards formed a straight flush (2c-6c) and another player had the 7c
* the five comunity cards formed quad 5 with A kicker.

I hit at least 4 times quads and I saw many more. One time I was dealt KK and the flop came KTK. An other was dealt TT. I won a huge all in. Another time I had quads there was another player with a fullhouse.

Eventualy, today I was dealt QQ. A tilting player went all in with K and a low kicker ofsuited preflop. I called. He hit trips with his K. Next hand he went all in again. Iwas dealt Ad Kd. I called and won. A few hands later i was dealt JJ. A player before me rised (at this moment i put him on A and a high card) and i rerised. He called and the flop came weird (low cards and no scarry draw). I bet all in and he called. On the river turned up an A. He had AQ. Two or three hands later I was dealt JJ. I rised very big. A player called. On the flop turned up an A. I made a bet about half of the potsize (and about equal wit my preflop bet) to make him reveal the strenght of his hand. He rerised me very big and I folded. Till this moment I had lost so much and I began tilting. The next or the seccond next hand i was dealt KJ. A player bet big (I put him on A and high card). The flop came J, small card, A. I payed him off because i hoped i was wrong preflop. He had AQ. After two hands I was dealt A8. I had a realy small stack so I decided to gambele and I bet all in. A player rised and another called. At the flop turned up J and 2 small cards. One player bet big, the other rised all in and the first called. One of them had JJ and hit trips. The other mucked but he said he had AA (maybe he was lieing). Anyway, I lost my whole bankrole.

The point is that during these 40 hours of play i saw more quads, fullhouses and realy bad beats than in my whole life (I may exagerate a little). Players got used to see such scenes and one can sometimes read in the chat box messages such: "clasic bugsys" or "thx bugsys". I played many freerols there but I didn't see so many things during them like these seen at BBP games. Some says that the site is digged. Maybe he is, maybe he has a problem with the rundom number generator or maybe it's just a bad perception because of the bad luck. I made a post about that at the site review section.

Anyway, do you think that such things are statistically correct?
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Old Jun 24, 2006, 12:36pm   #2
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Default Re: Do you think it's correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristi1
Anyway, do you think that such things are statistically correct?
Yes
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Old Jun 24, 2006, 1:20pm   #3
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I'm not familiar with this site, but it is highly unlikely that any reasonably sized online poker site is rigging the cards because:

Quote:
1. It's not in a poker room's financial interest to rig the deck. The major online poker rooms are companies valued in the hundreds of millions, sometimes billions of dollars. Some of the larger online poker rooms are also publicly traded companies. For example, Party Poker is owned by Party Gaming, a member of the FTSE 100 index of the London Stock Exchange.

Even if there is only a 1% chance of them being caught, the risk makes it not worth it to make a few extra bucks. If you are one of the owners of Party Poker, are you going to potentially destroy your billion dollar net worth over a trivial amount of money in extra rake?

2. There are numerous pros that have detailed logs of all the hands they have played. They are able to do this with a program such as Poker Tracker that keeps statistics of all hands played. With all of the data that is potentially mined, over the course of the years, someone reputable would be able to prove something fishy if it was in fact happening.

3. Online poker rooms have had their RNGs analyzed and verified by third parties. Examples are Party Poker, PokerStars, and Titan Poker.

These are the major reasons why most educated people trust the online poker rooms. Now, let's take the next step and at the reasoning behind some people's paranoia:

Paranoid thought: Online poker rooms might rig the deck so that bad players can win more often. Otherwise, bad players will lose to quickly and quit playing.

There are other ways a poker room can limit the ability of pros to beat up the fish. Sites can do this by limiting the number of tables a person plays, not having player note abilities, creative advertising, and other strategies (read poker ecosystems for details). Basically, they can do a lot of things, and a lot of the poker rooms aren't even employing these tactics. They may in fact have good reason for not doing so. Pros will play a lot...no matter what. They often think they can win even if the game has gotten too difficult. They will continue to play, even if their hourly rate has significantly decreased. Many pros/winning players aren't as sharky as one may think in terms of game selection.

Paranoid thought: Poker rooms rig the deck through "action flops" and other types of hands that stimulate rake.

Since the poker rooms rake is based on a percentage of the pot, it makes obvious sense that the poker rooms will rig the games so there's more action and therefore more rake, right? Well, no. More action means higher variance which means people will bust out even quicker. This paranoid thought basically contradicts the first paranoid thought. The first paranoid person thinks the poker room is trying to keep everyone breaking even so they keep on playing. This paranoid thought thinks the poker room will essentially induce wild swings for a short term increase in rake.

Furthermore, this sort of artificial mechanism to increase rake would only matter at the lower limits anyway. At the higher limits, the rake is almost always maxed out anyway when a flop is seen. So do paranoids think that the poker rooms rig the lower stakes games and not the higher stakes games? Or do they think they are going to chase after a small increase in rake by rigging all the games? The possibilities for chasing one's tail thinking about this ridiculous notion are endless!

All I know is I hope the paranoids think the online sites rig the lower-stakes games and not the higher-stakes games. This way, they'll sit at a $30-$60 table with me and lose their money without worry.

There are issues with online poker that are potentially troublesome: collusion, player-made bots, and people multi-accounting tournaments. However, the risk of the major online poker rooms intentionally rigging the deck does not fall into this category.
Quoted from The Weekly Shuffle, 2006-05-21, by TwoGun.
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Old Jun 24, 2006, 8:43pm   #4
Cristi1
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Default Re: Do you think it's correct?

You have more experience than me so probably you are right.
I have to say that I read the articale some time ago.

But...
I didn't mean that it's not correct to get so many badbeats with high pocket pairs. I was wondering what is the chanse to hit so many quads? I play poker with a group of friends too with real cards. And is very rare when someone hits a four of a kind. And it is much more rare to flop quads while another floped a fullhouse. It hapened to me this week but it also hapened to me some time ago (a couple of weeks) in a tourney. Each time I was dealt KK (i canot remember the suits), the flop was KTK and someone else had TT. Another time this weak I hit quads (on turn or river) while another opponent had a fullhouse again.

However, I am going to make a deposit at a big site because here the competition is strong.
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Old Jun 24, 2006, 10:53pm   #5
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You play more hands in the same time online therefore you're also more likely to see quads.
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Old Jun 24, 2006, 11:28pm   #6
Cristi1
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I like to play at too tables in the same time. So I play a ring game and a freeroll. The intristing thing i noticed is that i didn't hit so often quads at the freerolls (and I played many hours at those freerolls - they have 7 freerolls with a prize poll of 5000BBP=$50 each every day) than at the cash game.
However, it may be a coincidence or a wrong perception.

As I said, I am going to deposit at a large site. Maybe at Party Poker? Do anyone know a good place for a bigner where to develop his real money game skills?
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Old Jun 26, 2006, 3:47pm   #7
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Since thursday I had 2 sets of quads my self and a royal flush all the way to the 9 (A-9 of spades). Last night I was on 2 tables and saw quad Qs flopped 2 times in less than 10 minutes. And a 22j2x and 222 boards back to back on the same table.

And, that's my second royal in less than 30 days.

Weird stuff happens in the random world of (online, where hands happen very quickly) poker.
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Old Jun 26, 2006, 9:18pm   #8
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half those sites are probably rigged (deposit money, get good cards, take out money, get bad cards) but theres no way to prove it.
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