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Old Jun 26, 2006, 10:23pm   #1
Amphetrion
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Default Could anybody get away from this hand?

PokerStars Game #5373889375: Tournament #27112405, $3.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2006/06/26 - 17:38:06 (ET)
Table '27112405 1' 10-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: Go4broke (965 in chips)
Seat 2: joehomie (2025 in chips)
Seat 3: mr_rebel_29 (1430 in chips)
Seat 4: OverTheHill8 (1830 in chips)
Seat 6: ParkerTime (1045 in chips)
Seat 7: beachvlg (2500 in chips)
Seat 8: mrflht01 (950 in chips)
Seat 9: Sensored (2415 in chips)
Seat 10: the_vicar06 (1840 in chips)
mrflht01: posts small blind 50
Sensored: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ParkerTime [As 8s]
the_vicar06: folds
Go4broke: folds
joehomie: calls 100
mr_rebel_29: calls 100
OverTheHill8: folds
ParkerTime: calls 100
beachvlg: folds
mrflht01: calls 50
Sensored: checks
*** FLOP *** [Ts Ks 6s]
mrflht01: checks
Sensored: bets 100
joehomie: folds
mr_rebel_29: folds
ParkerTime: calls 100
mrflht01: folds
*** TURN *** [Ts Ks 6s] [8c]
Sensored: checks
ParkerTime: checks
*** RIVER *** [Ts Ks 6s 8c] [6c]
Sensored: bets 200
ParkerTime: raises 400 to 600
Sensored: raises 700 to 1300
ParkerTime: calls 245 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Sensored: shows [Kh Kd] (a full house, Kings full of Sixes)
ParkerTime: shows [As 8s] (a flush, Ace high)
Sensored collected 2390 from pot

So I flop the nuts, and decide to go easy on the betting, really slow play it. Then the board pairs, and Sensored really starts betting. The last bet was enough to put me all in. My goal when slowplaying the flush was to get all my chips in there. I was nervous about the full house but wasn't about to lay down what had been the best possible hand until the river. So, is there anybody who could've laid this down? I posted this here cause I figured it'd be a more of a bad beat thread than a bad play thread, but I'm curious to know if there was anything I could've done differently.
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Old Jun 26, 2006, 11:08pm   #2
TWLLM
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Default having the nuts shouldn't mean autoslowplay time

No, I can't get away from it; I'd rather play it properly than get away from it personally.

I think you need to learn when to slowplay, and when not to. Just because you have the nuts isn't reason enough to slowplay. Sure its safer than when you don't have the nuts, but slowplaying is to be done purposefully, not just because you have the nuts. Like you said, the goal was to get all the chips in... slowplaying here was the WORST way to go about that.

Think of it this way: who is going to give you sufficient action to justify slowplaying? Only hands like a lower flush or a set, right (maybe two pair)? And what is special about these hands? These are the hands which will also call your bets, especially flushes but even sets.

Hence, the only thing slowplaying here does is give free cards and/or kill your market for callers.
And remember this, no 'free card' will improve your opponents to make them call you more than they would otherwise, unless it makes them the boat. If another spade falls, what then? The set isn't calling you any more. The lower flush is now scared and flees. Slowplaying here is pointless, let alone dangerous (after all, if you don't bet, that set only give you a lot of chips when they hit the full house - they're not going to push all in for you usually).

In this case, don't look at the result look at how you played it. Therein lies the disappointment. I mean com'on, checking behind on the turn? You're not on TV here!
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Oh, and obviously, TWLLM, we'd all rather you just ruled with an iron fist of nittiness and made all decisions without consultation, but that goes without saying, right?
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Old Jun 26, 2006, 11:38pm   #3
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Just the response I was looking for. Makes me feel like a total donkey, but it's the info I wanted. I hear what you're saying and I'll keep it in mind next time. Thanks for the candid response TWLLM.
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Old Jun 27, 2006, 1:08am   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphetrion
Just the response I was looking for. Makes me feel like a total donkey, but it's the info I wanted. I hear what you're saying and I'll keep it in mind next time. Thanks for the candid response TWLLM.
I honestly didn't want to denigrate you or anything like that. The first line (and the last ) was meant to be a little cheeky, but other than that I was being totally serious. I try not to be rude to people who aren't (1) posting "I got bad beat on my coinflip" or (2) being mouthy themselves when they post. I didn't think you were doing either; I knew you wanted good advice.

So if you feel like a donkey for how you played that's one thing, but please don't feel like a donkey because of how I worded my advice. Hopefully you'll remember the principles better this way?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleU
Oh, and obviously, TWLLM, we'd all rather you just ruled with an iron fist of nittiness and made all decisions without consultation, but that goes without saying, right?
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Old Jun 27, 2006, 10:57pm   #5
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After reading your advice, I felt like a donkey for my play, not your wording. I didn't feel put down by your post in any way. Thanks again for the advice....
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Old Jun 27, 2006, 11:33pm   #6
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Ok most of the mistakes were covered, but I will point out a few of the obvious ones:

You limped after a few limpers while having only 10 BBs. Either push or fold (I would push here). If you are called, then you are not in the worst shape and you have some dead money to sweeten the pot.

The pot on the flop is 600 + 100 for the betting. You have 800 left. This is a $3 tourney. I would push here because you are probably going to get called by many worse hands and an additional flush card kills your action.

When you flop the nuts or something really strong, you should be asking yourself "What is the easiest way for me to get all of my money in". Here ts is push.
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Old Jun 28, 2006, 2:15am   #7
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Off topic, but did Sensored just check from the BB with KK?
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Old Jul 03, 2006, 1:52pm   #8
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I can't see myself laying that one down. I'm not a fan of slow playing so I probably would have put all my chips in on the flop. But in a game like that it is almost impossible to get someone to lay KK down. Plus he flopped a set, so no matter what you bet he was going to the river with all his chips.

I don't think you should beat yourself up over this one. Even if the 6 didn't come on the river you still would have gotten all his chips in.

The thing that would have thrown me off is that he didn't raise before the flop with KK. I hate that, I probably would have put him on A6 or 56 suited, 67 suited, maybe even KT.

To comment on you slowplaying it, I said I'm not a big fan of slowplaying but in a hand like this (especially since he checked pre-flop) I might consider slowplaying it. You want him to get his hand 2 pair or a set, but the full house was unreadable.

The only read I could see here is since he was the BB he could have checked with anything, T6,86, T8,K6,K8. I'm always weary of the BB betting on any flop because they could have anything in there hand. But you flopped the nut flush, it's hard to let go of.
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