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Old Sep 12, 2006, 12:58am   #11
noone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catfish88 View Post
This is a tough spot. I was recently stacked on a hand almost identical to this one, only problem was it was NL600 . I had KT and flopped top two on a suited board. Action got heavy and I convinced myself that my opponent was on a flush draw and I got it all in. He had actually flopped the nut flush! I think here your opponent has the flush or a very strong draw. Your bet was a little weaker than what I would've gone with, so if you think this guy is a complete maniac, he may have the Ace of diamonds and think he can just push you off the hand. He may figure he has 12 outs and that you will fold a high percentage of the time. In this case I tend to think that he may actually have hit the flush with two small diamonds and he may think you are drawing to the nuts. A call/push here would be highly read dependent. I think I actually prefer a fold, but I may just be pessimistic due to my recent debacle with a nearly identical hand...

"Action got heavy and I convinced myself that my opponent was on a flush draw and I got it all in. "
That's what I thought and did.

"if you think this guy is a complete maniac, he may have the Ace of diamonds and think he can just push you off the hand"
Yep, hoping for that, or even Ad + K. I did think he was up to some shenanigans, at least a semi-bluff.

"In this case I tend to think that he may actually have hit the flush with two small diamonds "
Nice read, catfish! Actually, Qd 6d. He called, I didn't hit an out, end of that story.

" but I may just be pessimistic due to my recent debacle with a nearly identical hand".
Wish I'd read your story before this hand instead of after.

Quote:
acehole_76 wrote: With your read I like calling then moving in if a blank hits on the turn. This could be bad advice I have headache, and I have been drinking alot today.
That's ok, I had had a few "relaxers" myself before abandoning my comfort zone of FL for a try at NL.
Your advice was probably better than what I did (put him AI), but it would have ended up the same, unfortunately. Hope your head is better.

Everyone, thanks for the opinions. Really interesting reasoning and I can see the merits in each line. So much easier in FL - you bet out, if raised you can just call, and if nothing changes you can call to the showdown for not too much more. This is going to be very challenging but fun to try to learn this game.

But how do you guys who play this for large cash stakes not get ulcers?
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Old Sep 12, 2006, 1:07am   #12
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p. s. As far as raising PF, I agree with the observation that at this stake, it's tough to push people off of hands such as sooted crap. But other than that, what is the general thinking in raising PF with what I thought was a marginal hand like KTo, which may often be outkicked/dominated, as opposed to being allowed to see the flop cheaply first? Not arguing, just trying to learn as much as possible.
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Old Sep 12, 2006, 1:39am   #13
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Who said the highroller don't get ulcers?

About raising preflop, I am not joking when I say that I rather raise with 32s than with KTo. Position is always preferable, I raise about 20% of my hands from the button and cutoff, then again, I play pretty LAG. Anyway, the reasoning behind this is that with 32s it is way easier to tell if you are ahead or not. If you raise with KTo you will get called by hands that dominate you pretty often, and you will piss away your money when you have the worst of it. No problem with limping KT (in position!) though, but be aware why you limp it. You don't want to hit just 1 stupid pair, you play it for the straight possibilities, 2 pr, a flush if it is sooted and so on. Of course you can not check/fold if you hit a K, you need to find out where you stand, so do not shy away from raising a bet if there is one, and your K is top pair. Check behind on the river with your marginal hands if you have a bad feeling, or put out blocking bets when you are OOP and want to go to a showdown, but don't want to pay too much.
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Old Sep 12, 2006, 2:39am   #14
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Well, raising with KT is largely dependant on how confident you are with your post flop play. At low stakes, any hand is (well almost) is raisable from late position and the players are bad enough that you can take advantage of general weak postflop play and exploit them.

Once you move higher up the limits I would rather be raising with 46o than with QJ or K9
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Old Sep 12, 2006, 2:58am   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KHSPoker21 View Post
Well, raising with KT is largely dependant on how confident you are with your post flop play. At low stakes, any hand is (well almost) is raisable from late position and the players are bad enough that you can take advantage of general weak postflop play and exploit them.

Once you move higher up the limits I would rather be raising with 46o than with QJ or K9

I like reraising on the cutoff with 46o..but that is just me

honestly how can anyone put me on a hand
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obviously, it's always my fault whenever anyone does anything stupid around here.

fucking morons every one of you. there isn't a man in this village that i wouldn't feed into an incinerator for no reason other than to get rid of them.

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Old Sep 12, 2006, 3:18am   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KHSPoker21 View Post
Well, raising with KT is largely dependant on how confident you are with your post flop play.
Not very, at the moment, but working on it

Quote:
acehole_76 wrote:
I like reraising on the cutoff with 46o..but that is just me
honestly how can anyone put me on a hand
Very nice and deceptive! But as the players at this level are not very good, IMHO a lot of them aren't putting you on a hand anyway, just playing their own cards, so the advanced play is probably lost on them, right??

Quote:
CBone wrote:
the reasoning behind this is that with 32s it is way easier to tell if you are ahead or not.
Right, I get that, as acehole also said.

Quote:
No problem with limping KT (in position!) though, but be aware why you limp it. You don't want to hit just 1 stupid pair, you play it for the straight possibilities, 2 pr,
Yes, got that, had the position and the 2pr, even though it wasn't good on this one.

Quote:
or put out blocking bets when you are OOP and want to go to a showdown, but don't want to pay too much.
"blocking bets" is a new term to me. Didn't see it in the Glossary but I think I get it from the context: Marginal hand, OOP, bet out to try to prevent someone with a stronger hand from betting higher so you can get to a showdown more cheaply. Is that it? How much of the pot would you bet for this?

Lot of good philosophy on the follow-through there too, CB - thanks.

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Who said the highroller don't get ulcers?
I can see why!
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Old Sep 12, 2006, 11:56am   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBone View Post
About raising preflop, I am not joking when I say that I rather raise with 32s than with KTo. Position is always preferable, I raise about 20% of my hands from the button and cutoff, then again, I play pretty LAG. Anyway, the reasoning behind this is that with 32s it is way easier to tell if you are ahead or not. If you raise with KTo you will get called by hands that dominate you pretty often, and you will piss away your money when you have the worst of it. No problem with limping KT (in position!) though, but be aware why you limp it. You don't want to hit just 1 stupid pair, you play it for the straight possibilities, 2 pr, a flush if it is sooted and so on. Of course you can not check/fold if you hit a K, you need to find out where you stand, so do not shy away from raising a bet if there is one, and your K is top pair. Check behind on the river with your marginal hands if you have a bad feeling, or put out blocking bets when you are OOP and want to go to a showdown, but don't want to pay too much.
Thank you CB, this is one of the best posts I've read. Lots of good info, I am excited to incorporate some of this into my game. I have been a semi-sucessful player at 25NL and 50NL but I know I play way too many hands out of position. I think I can be very sucessful simply by paying more attention to position. Question: you say you like to raise your SC in position, if you narrow the field to 1 or 2 with say 23s do you always fire that c-bet to keep up the strength if you completely miss? Also, lets say you pick up a straight draw and its checked to you...do you fire at it there or check for the free card? Too many times I try to build the pot with my draw only to be check-raised and getting bad odds then I'm sitting there saying shit, I should have took the free card.

Edit: Thank you for the avatar too, do you like mine?
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