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Old Jan 30, 2007, 12:34pm   #1
Petroz
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Default A few hands for analysis

http://www.pokerhand.org/?779700
I was really card dead and going on tilt, this guy was playing back at me heaps and i thought a pair was pretty good. Poorly played but the result was positive, after this i was off tilt and playing more solidly. I figured he didn't have AA or KK and AQ was the only hand that hit that flop but still played this hand pretty poorly.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?779720
This guy kept playing back at me and i decided take him on (probably not the best hand to take to war). He only made a PSB on the flop as a bluff since the board was dry i figured i could pick it up on the turn.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?779697
I had him on KK or AA he had the next best thing but the result was unfortunate.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?779706
Bad call on the flop I spose but another positive result. This guy was mega tight so i figured he had top pair, turns out he didn't.

The next hand is one where i commit over 2 buy-ins with one out. Pokerstars crashed after this hand so i don't have the HH for this so i'll just enter it manually.

my hand 7s 8s in the BB

raised to $1.25 preflop with 3 callers, i call
flop 4s 4h 5s

i'm first to act and i lead out for $3 with my inside straight flush draw.
It folds round to the button (who is the guy who doubled up with the AQ suckout earlier), we're both really deep ($60) and he min raises to $6.

I jam and he insta calls with 44, I have one out and it doesn't hit. I figured theres only 2 hands I don't want to see, and i think this guy would raise any PP and or a 4 in this position I'm not sure he would call the reraise all-in but he did commit his stack with TPTK so maybe it's close since my image is still rediculously loose and aggressive.

My post hand analysis: Since he smooth called preflop the high pocket pairs are unlikely. After his raise maybe a hand like A4s or K4s or maybe a hand with a 5. I suppose since the board is paired my combo draw loses most it's value and i should probably get away from the hand.

In hind sight i played this hand terribly (and most the others), but i would still like some feedback. Now that i look back on it i spose i was still on tilt given the loose calls i'm making all over the place.

-Petroz
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Last edited by Petroz; Jan 30, 2007 at 12:48pm.
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Old Jan 30, 2007, 1:15pm   #2
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Hand 1: pocket 3s are a clear fold against a solid raise. You can only call and fold on the flop if you don't hit your set.

Hand 2: ok, if you love to play superagressiv thats ok, but the Hand before shows, that your skills after the flop aren't as good enough.

Hand 3: Stop raising with medium hands an fold against a reraise if you do. If not and you are so lucky on the flop, don't slowplay. Your Hand can easily sucked out, like you see. There are 8.5$ in the pot, you bet 4$ making the first better 3$ to call so 1:4 pot odds and the raiser 2$ to call so 1:6 pot odds. You don't wand hands like AQ or KQ or even TQ and JQ in the Hand. So rasise minimium 10$. It's a very good chance, that you have the best hand.

Hand 4: Call preflop is ok, but you can fold since you have 3 actors left and j0shooah seems to be very aggressiv (when the HH before are normal for him). At the flop Call is not good, because you have only 6 clear outs (8c and Kc aren't outs).
After hitting youre straight calling the All-In with the nuts is clear. But if you play this hand ever like this you loose money.
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Old Jan 30, 2007, 1:21pm   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petroz View Post
http://www.pokerhand.org/?779700
The next hand is one where i commit over 2 buy-ins with one out. Pokerstars crashed after this hand so i don't have the HH for this so i'll just enter it manually.

my hand 7s 8s in the BB

raised to $1.25 preflop with 3 callers, i call
flop 4s 4h 5s

i'm first to act and i lead out for $3 with my inside straight flush draw.
It folds round to the button (who is the guy who doubled up with the AQ suckout earlier), we're both really deep ($60) and he min raises to $6.

I jam and he insta calls with 44, I have one out and it doesn't hit. I figured theres only 2 hands I don't want to see, and i think this guy would raise any PP and or a 4 in this position I'm not sure he would call the reraise all-in but he did commit his stack with TPTK so maybe it's close since my image is still rediculously loose and aggressive.

My post hand analysis: Since he smooth called preflop the high pocket pairs are unlikely. After his raise maybe a hand like A4s or K4s or maybe a hand with a 5. I suppose since the board is paired my combo draw loses most it's value and i should probably get away from the hand.

In hind sight i played this hand terribly (and most the others), but i would still like some feedback. Now that i look back on it i spose i was still on tilt given the loose calls i'm making all over the place.

-Petroz

All-In with a gutshot straigt flush draw isn't a good move. So you are underdog against each higher suited cards and against sets (or quads). So you bet too much. If you get calles, you run into a made hand and have only 1 out (not good). If the other one have no hand, he folds. So call the minreraise and look whats happen. Why he should minreraise you? He wants action and you give him action. Call the minreraise, look at the river. If its the same situation check and hope you get your pot odds to call (ok, in this situation I think you can count the 4 outs for the straight, ad I would coun 4 outs for a flush, since its not sure that you have the best one).
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Old Jan 30, 2007, 8:54pm   #4
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Hand 1: Eh, more times than not I'm going to fold here, he's giving you incorrect odds and you're basically crushed with any pocket pair.

Hand 2: First, "only a PSB bet" is quite an understatement. Usually potsize bets are indicative of some sort of hand. Then again, he did the same thing with AK on a Q high board last hand. You better hope he never gets AQ lol. Good bet on the turn though. Most of the times I'm going to try to take him out on the flop seeing as how if he fires on the turn are you still going to make a play? If not, you just lost $13

Hand 3: I find it hard to "put him" on AA or KK seeing as how he flat called two raises after limping. That's oozing of low pocket pair. On the flop, more times than not I except 88 or AQd. As already stated, raise more b/c flush draw, 2 bettors, you're potentially ahead of most hands.

Hand 4: Not too bad of a call on the flop but it makes the draw rather obvious and you're lucky he got impatient and pushed. Most of the times I'm raising because that's what I would do with 99 and Ax flush draw.

Hand 5: Please don't 3-bet an all in with a flush draw on a paired board. I suppose you could justify a 3-bet, but you're going to be out of position to a) stronger flush draw b)overpair c)crushed. Also, most of the times I'm going to 3-bet but not all-in wtih both a strong combo draw and the fullhouse on paired boards.
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Old Jan 30, 2007, 9:40pm   #5
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Okay, fair enough with hands 1, 3 and 4.

I have to defend hand 2, this guy was super aggressive. He ONLY made PSB with a bluff, he did it on these boards that are easy to miss (one high card) in big pots. If the flop was A high then i would be folding. I was at least 90% sure he wasn't going to fire on the turn, my smooth call on the flop would have had him worried. I spose it's possible he had a flush draw and laid it down but i doubt it.

With hand 3, i under raised but i figured the first guy was going to fold most of the time because the guy behind might raise. XMC was tight preflop for him to call a raise and min raise he needs a good hand. I was semi-confident he had a pair type hand not a draw. I wanted to let a card come off and get all the money in on a safe turn.

With hand 5 i figured i had 9 + 3 outs = 12. 12 x 4 = 48% (roughly) to win. If the board wasn't paired maybe this would be a decent play. The idea is to make him fold and win with the coin flip without showdown some of the time.

An update on hand 5. Pokerstars crashed after this hand and no more hands were dealt to the table. I requested a HH and it wasn't included. Whats more amazing is it didn't count!!!! i still have my money!!! GOD I'M LUCKY!!

-Petroz
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Last edited by Petroz; Jan 30, 2007 at 9:56pm.
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Old Jan 31, 2007, 4:48am   #6
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Petroz, I don't have much feedback on the individual hands. I do have a comment and a question.

You shouldn't ask for feedback on hands that were played based on player reads. It's usually a good play, regardless of result, if your reads are good. You were there, had a feel for the player, we were not so feedback is pretty pointless.

Why do you play like this at micros? It seems to me that you play a very loose aggressive style (judging by these and other HHs). You seem to crack when players are playing back at you, but your playing style is forcing them to do so. Are you still playing a 40/30 game?
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Old Jan 31, 2007, 6:41am   #7
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Hand one: The threebet is o.o but isn't totally unreasonable. I fold to his fourbet, though. Flop looks like complete spew; you have zero folding equity and his line here is probably AA/KK here the vast majority of the time.

Hand two: I fold at every opportunity, and I'm not kidding. I'm pretty sure the only thing you can fold out is AK, and I'm pretty sure his range is way wider than that.

Hand three: wtf at raising Q5o after a limp. I dig button aggression, but, like, ew. Not big on that minraise, either; you're probably going to have to flop trips or queens up to win. You're also not watching paint dry (read: playing limit) on the flop; raise more. I guess there's some argument for the minraise because if it's called you're probably beat, but whatever. I check behind on the turn, FWIW.

Hand four: I approve, particularly of the other guy open pushing into your nuts.

Hand five: eh, I don't like betting draws with onboard pairs, but this isn't a terrible spot because your shove has mad fold equity from overcards. Do note, however, that you might run into the NFD and be a not too happy camper. Twelve out draws are 45% to hit, btw.

Quote:
Also, most of the times I'm going to 3-bet but not all-in wtih both a strong combo draw and the fullhouse on paired boards.
wtf @ threebetting but not pushing a combo draw. Isn't having the turn brick pretty much the worst thing in the world?

edit: it's okay to play TAG, really, it is.
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Old Feb 01, 2007, 10:04am   #8
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"You shouldn't ask for feedback on hands that were played based on player reads. It's usually a good play, regardless of result, if your reads are good. You were there, had a feel for the player, we were not so feedback is pretty pointless."
Fair point. I sort of hadn't thought of it that way, I spose most of these hands were based on reads, some of them where admitedly bad plays regardless like hand 1.

"Twelve out draws are 45% to hit, btw."
Yeh good point, i think i over valued my draw.

"wtf @ threebetting but not pushing a combo draw. Isn't having the turn brick pretty much the worst thing in the world?"
Thats what i figured.

"Are you still playing a 40/30 game?"
yeh: 42.8%/28.4%

"it's okay to play TAG, really, it is."
Yeh i think it's high time i tightened up and started playing sensibly. I spose i still have that newbie sense of frustration when i fold J9o UTG then see i would of flopped the nuts. I'm gonna try to get my hands played under 30% and try to make a few conservative lay-downs.

Okay i'm gonna multitable playing more or les ABC tag and see how that goes. I see such rediculous swings playing the way i do.

-Petroz
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Old Feb 01, 2007, 9:15pm   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogboy4L View Post

wtf @ threebetting but not pushing a combo draw. Isn't having the turn brick pretty much the worst thing in the world?
On PAIRED boards. I don't wanna 3-bet AI drawing close to thin or dead, and I don't 3-bet AI when I have the fullhouse because I don't want to lose them. Plus, if I 3-bet with both the combo draw and the fullhouse, then a 4-bet would mean they most likely have a strong hand and i can fold the combo draw and call with the full house.

As for turning a blank, then it becomes read dependant and I find after 3-betting on the flop and you're OOP then a large percentage of the time they'll check behind.
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Old Feb 02, 2007, 10:34am   #10
Petroz
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"As for turning a blank, then it becomes read dependant and I find after 3-betting on the flop and you're OOP then a large percentage of the time they'll check behind."
This is an interesting point, i think a hand that is vunerable like a mid PP could call a 3-bet there and bet the turn. Also I see alot of players betting when checked to by the raiser ( and they often get check-raised all-in).
I don't like 3-betting OOP with a draw just like i don't like check-raising with it. Best case scenario in both cases is to get called then you have the betting lead and the 80% of the time the turn brings a blank you have to fold to any reasonable bet. If they do check behind and the draw hits the river then i think the chances of getting paid off are signifcatly reduced especially if it's a an obvious draw like a flush.

"On PAIRED boards. I don't wanna 3-bet AI drawing close to thin or dead... if I 3-bet with both the combo draw and the fullhouse, then a 4-bet would mean they most likely have a strong hand and i can fold the combo draw and call with the full house."
I asked the player if i made it $14 instead of a jam if he would raise and he said he would smooth call. I think most players aren't going to 4-bet here, in position, with a monster hand. I just cant see any logic to justify it. Getting the pot over $30 on the flop against a player with $45 behind seems enough to get the job done by the river.


These are only my thoughts and maybe I have overlooked some aspect of these plays. Thankyou for your feedback, definately food for thought.

I spose the moral of the story is even though I consider strong drawing hands good in multiway pots I should try to avoid getting married to a draw on a paired board especially when i'm OOP. Also there is no bigger sign of strength from a nit than a minraise.

I think checking and calling or folding *shudder* the flop is a better course of action with this hand.

-Petroz
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Last edited by Petroz; Feb 02, 2007 at 11:01am.
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