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Old Feb 06, 2007, 10:40pm   #21
kid hustlr
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those hands just arent of that much concern DK.

In almost every case these guys only have half a buy in which makes the folds even more difficult.

Even with spades on that board, AK is a huge fold in hand one and there wouldn't be many on here that would make it. Too many hands c-bet that flop not to raise it IMO

The only hand which really looked like something fishy was the AQ on the A23 board but as i said, this guy has half a stack so its hard to get away here.

apart from MAYBE the flop bets being to big, i dont think u should be worried about these HH. Finally, don't get to defensive, aggresion rules this game
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Old Feb 07, 2007, 12:44am   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doza View Post
Stop with the pot size bets. When you have top pair and bet the pot, you're not really getting many hands that you can beat to call you. So, you're either getting a small pot, or loosing a big one.

Bet less, around half pot bets are fine, unless you're confindent that you're up against draws, where you should bet 3/4 pot. Betting less, starting from the flop, will keep the pots smaller on the turn and river.

You dont really care where you're at with TPTK, as long as the pots stay as small as you want them to. A half pot bet could get a call from second pair or underpairs or whatnot.

Also, checking behind on the turn and calling a river bet is a great idea (assuming that you're mostly in position when you play). You're allowing bad hands a chance to bet or bluff you out.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. I do both of these moves often, especially on the flop, since players call with a lot of random things on the flop (2 unpaired overs, normal draws) if they think they have the odds to. The second play idea is great, especially since you're playing the hand exactly like you would if you raised preflop and C-betted if you missed or not, and that is why it is sucha good way to play a hand.
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Old Feb 07, 2007, 2:55am   #23
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Don't mean to hijack but what do you think of this hand. I really had no idea what he had and was confused by his play. I thought he may have hit a set of 3's on the river. I think it may have been better to check the turn but I don't know.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Hand #39457526-23 at SnG-0003c (No Limit Hold'em Sit and Go)
Started at 06/Feb/07 22:46:29

dirty deal is at seat 0 with 1110.
briand1281 is at seat 2 with 1215.
cradford1 is at seat 3 with 1550.
ChocChips is at seat 4 with 2460.
waxhax0rs is at seat 5 with 1335.
FishingGirl2 is at seat 7 with 2250.
TheChistian1 is at seat 8 with 3235.
jaytube is at seat 9 with 1845.
The button is at seat 7.

TheChistian1 posts the small blind of 20.
jaytube posts the big blind of 40.
dirty deal: -- --
briand1281: -- --
cradford1: -- --
ChocChips: -- --
waxhax0rs: Ah Kd
FishingGirl2: -- --
TheChistian1: -- --
jaytube: -- --
Pre-flop:

dirty deal folds. briand1281 calls. cradford1
folds. ChocChips calls. waxhax0rs raises to 120.
FishingGirl2 folds. TheChistian1 folds. jaytube
folds. briand1281 calls. ChocChips calls.
Flop (board: Ks Qc 4s):

briand1281 checks. ChocChips checks. waxhax0rs bets
150. briand1281 calls. ChocChips folds.
Turn (board: Ks Qc 4s 4d):

briand1281 checks. waxhax0rs bets 125. briand1281
calls.
River (board: Ks Qc 4s 4d 3c):

briand1281 bets 500. waxhax0rs calls.

Showdown:

briand1281 shows Qh Kc.
briand1281 has Qh Kc Ks Qc 4s: two pair, kings and queens.
waxhax0rs mucks cards.
(waxhax0rs has Ah Kd.)

Hand #39457526-23 Summary:

No rake is taken for this hand.
briand1281 wins 1970 with two pair, kings and queens.
----------------------------------------------------------------
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Old Feb 07, 2007, 4:32am   #24
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I make it 200 preflop, bet 2/3 on the flop. I might check behind on the turn but probably not; I dunno what his UTG limping range is. Maybe JT? KJ, KT are also maybes, but I don't think people are quite that stupid. I probably check behind and call a bet figuring it to be a bluff.

FWIW tournament hands are different enough from cash games that you might not want to take the same lines with TPTK. I'm a lot more inclined to take TPTK to the felt in most tournament settings.
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Old Feb 07, 2007, 10:33am   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaxHaX0rS View Post
Don't mean to hijack but what do you think of this hand. I really had no idea what he had and was confused by his play. I thought he may have hit a set of 3's on the river. I think it may have been better to check the turn but I don't know.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Hand #39457526-23 at SnG-0003c (No Limit Hold'em Sit and Go)
Started at 06/Feb/07 22:46:29

dirty deal is at seat 0 with 1110.
briand1281 is at seat 2 with 1215.
cradford1 is at seat 3 with 1550.
ChocChips is at seat 4 with 2460.
waxhax0rs is at seat 5 with 1335.
FishingGirl2 is at seat 7 with 2250.
TheChistian1 is at seat 8 with 3235.
jaytube is at seat 9 with 1845.
The button is at seat 7.

TheChistian1 posts the small blind of 20.
jaytube posts the big blind of 40.
dirty deal: -- --
briand1281: -- --
cradford1: -- --
ChocChips: -- --
waxhax0rs: Ah Kd
FishingGirl2: -- --
TheChistian1: -- --
jaytube: -- --
Pre-flop:

dirty deal folds. briand1281 calls. cradford1
folds. ChocChips calls. waxhax0rs raises to 120.
FishingGirl2 folds. TheChistian1 folds. jaytube
folds. briand1281 calls. ChocChips calls.
Flop (board: Ks Qc 4s):

briand1281 checks. ChocChips checks. waxhax0rs bets
150. briand1281 calls. ChocChips folds.
Turn (board: Ks Qc 4s 4d):

briand1281 checks. waxhax0rs bets 125. briand1281
calls.
River (board: Ks Qc 4s 4d 3c):

briand1281 bets 500. waxhax0rs calls.

Showdown:

briand1281 shows Qh Kc.
briand1281 has Qh Kc Ks Qc 4s: two pair, kings and queens.
waxhax0rs mucks cards.
(waxhax0rs has Ah Kd.)

Hand #39457526-23 Summary:

No rake is taken for this hand.
briand1281 wins 1970 with two pair, kings and queens.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Bet 160 preflop. If both call, bet 400 on flop, and check behind on the turn if you can. I dont think there is any way to get away from this hand the way the board played out and how weakly you bet it.
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Old Feb 07, 2007, 5:38pm   #26
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Thanks for the advice but I think I may have ended up going broke if I played it the way you guys have suggested. I think I'd rather play a smaller pot at this stage in the tournament. I used to always raise 4x almost everytime but I have found that 3x gets the job done, keeps the pot smaller (which is what I want with these hands) which also allows me to give draws bad odds on the flop without putting in as many chips. I still think the weakish approach is good against this level of play at this stage in the tournament. I think I should have bet the flop and then check-called up to a maximum of what I did end up calling. I dunno tho...
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Old Feb 07, 2007, 7:05pm   #27
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Quote:
Thanks for the advice but I think I may have ended up going broke if I played it the way you guys have suggested.
What would have happened in one particular case is not terribly relevant. The line that extracts maximum value from his entire range is the one to be taking. Since his range here is probably considerably wider than KQ, I'm pretty sure your line was fine. Raising more preflop is good because it extracts value and gets you heads up more often. Multiway pots with TPTK are not good times.
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Old Feb 10, 2007, 9:19pm   #28
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I've played 3000 hands since I started this thread and so far all is good. The amount I've lost with one pair has gone down and I feel more confident.

Quote:
You dont really care where you're at with TPTK, as long as the pots stay as small as you want them to.
I try to keep this in mind when playing - top advice ... thanks
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Old Feb 16, 2007, 5:30am   #29
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You overplay your hands, And Try to get MaxValue 100% of the time.
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