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Old Apr 24, 2007, 2:46pm   #1
msc1204
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Default After this hand I had to take a break...

Hi All,

this is my first post here. I have been playing online for nearly a year now and now that a lot of suck outs and "bad beats" happen but after this hand today I had to take a break preventing me going on tilt.

I would be happy about some input where I played this hand wrongly.

***** Hand History for Game 5905998335 *****
$10 USD NL Texas Holdem - Tuesday, April 24, 09:02:08 ET 2007
Table Table 127954 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: msc1204 ( $9.66 USD ) - thats me
Seat 9: Steve8280 ( $12.64 USD )
Seat 5: PokerDrogie ( $8.79 USD )
Seat 8: CptSlow ( $23.57 USD )
Seat 10: denodoroo ( $12.08 USD )
Seat 2: Peter_Sailer ( $4.50 USD )
Seat 7: dopey1986 ( $5.50 USD )
Seat 6: budlinger ( $8.52 USD )
Seat 4: Damj111 ( $10 USD )
Seat 3: chrissiric ( $10 USD )
budlinger posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
dopey1986 posts big blind [$0.10 USD].
chrissiric posts big blind [$0.10 USD].
Damj111 posts big blind [$0.10 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to msc1204 [ Qc Qs ]
CptSlow folds
Steve8280 folds
denodoroo folds
msc1204 raises [$0.40 USD]
Peter_Sailer folds
chrissiric calls [$0.30 USD]
Damj111 folds
PokerDrogie folds
budlinger folds
dopey1986 folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qd, Jh, 2h ]
msc1204 bets [$0.30 USD]
chrissiric raises [$0.60 USD]
msc1204 raises [$1.20 USD]
chrissiric calls [$0.90 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ]
msc1204 bets [$0.80 USD]
chrissiric calls [$0.80 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ 6d ]
msc1204 bets [$1 USD]
chrissiric raises [$2 USD]
msc1204 is all-In [$5.96 USD]
chrissiric calls [$4.96 USD]
chrissiric shows [ Ad, 9d ]a flush, Ace high.
msc1204 doesnt show [ Qc, Qs ]three of a kind, Queens.
chrissiric wins $18.60 USD from the main pot with a flush, Ace high.


What did I do wrong? I put him on a busted heart flush draw from his betting or a lower set.

Thanks for you help guys...

MSc_
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Old Apr 24, 2007, 3:02pm   #2
SlimboKarvell
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Your flop reraise could be a bit larger, but exept for that you played it correctly. Thats a bad beat, take a break and go on playing after it; you will make a lo of money on such playing!
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Old Apr 24, 2007, 3:34pm   #3
angusg
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Welcome to the forum msc.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with Slimbo; you did not play this hand well at any stage.

Preflop - two players have posted out of position and you raise to 4 times the big blind. That's not nearly enough. The bare minimum you should be raising here is 60c. At 10NL I raise 5xbb + 1bb/limper so I would make it 70c here. As played villain's call in position with a suited Ace is very reasonable.

Flop - You bet 30c into a $1.05 pot. If there was no flush draw on board this might be OK as a weak lead (trying to induce a raise so that you could reraise). As it is though it is very dangerous because you are giving the flush draw (or straight draw) good odds to call. Villain raises you with air which is exactly what you want, you reraise which is correct but you need to reraise more (you are still giving the draws odds to call.) It was a mistake for villain to call this reraise with only an overcard and a backdoor flush draw, but that was his only mistake in the hand (apart from posting out of position).

Turn - there are now two flush draws and a straight draw on board and you bet 80c into what is now a $4 pot. That is just dreadful. You should be betting something that tempts a drawing hand to call but gives him the incorrect odds. You also want to build a decent sized pot because guess what, you have a huge hand! I bet about $3 here. Yes he may still call and hit his draw on the river, the point is that he has made a mistake by calling and that is what will win you money in the long run.

River - Fair enough, it's hard to give villain credit for the backdoor flush or 53, but you need to ask whether you are actually going to get any value out of your 3-bet all in. You say you put him on a busted flush or a lower set. If he has a busted flush draw he will fold to your push so you're not going to get any more chips out of him. As for a lower set, JJ/22/44 would have 4-bet the flop and/or raised the turn, guaranteed. You can be close to 100% sure that he doesn't have any of these hands. Therefore with the single, extremely unlikely exception of 66 your shove is only getting called by a hand that beats you, so I think you should just call the min raise.

Then again I would be betting enough so that calling a min raise would be all in so the result would be the same...

In any case, you can't really consider this a bad beat since you played the hand much worse than your opponent. If you had bet properly on the previous streets and your opponent was still in the hand and hit the backdoor flush, then you could call it a bad beat.

Hope that doesn't sound too harsh. If you want to improve, keep posting hands (but in future avoid posting results).

Last edited by angusg; Apr 24, 2007 at 4:01pm.
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Old Apr 24, 2007, 3:36pm   #4
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Hi there, welcome to the forums. I'm sorry but I don't agree, IMHO you made a real hash of this hand.

Preflop: w/ 2 players posting OOP you can make the raise a bit bigger at least 5xBB (3-4xBB+1xBB for each limper).

Flop: You hit top set but there's a possible flush draw. You now bet 30c into a $1.05 pot which is way too little IMHO. I like a 2/3 - pot size bet here. You get reraised which is great but then you put in a relatively small reraise, make it a least $2 here (Reraise 3x the OP's bet or the pot whichever is larger).

Turn: Now we have two poss flush draws on the board and you bet 80c into a $3.5 pot which again is way too little. I like a bet of at least $2.5 here.

River: Agreed, it's hard to put him on a Diamond flush so I don't think you can avoid getting the rest of your stack in here.

Overall, it's unfortunate that he sucked out on you but I think overall you played this hand pretty horribly. The OP played it pretty horribly too but at no point in the hand did you give him a real opportunity to fold. The flop/ turn lead outs were particularly bad. I'm not sure if you were trying to slowplay or what but as a rule of thumb I would suggest betting at least 2/3 pot on a board w/ draws and at least 1/2 pot on a dry board. This way you aren't giving the right odds for ppl on draws to call although they will, but they're making the mistake and not you. 10NL is full of calling stations that will pay you off when you hit a hand but make sure you make them pay so get those postflop bets up nearer the pot and you'll be fine.

Hope this helps .

Edit: Angus beat me to it with a scarily similar post.
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Last edited by Badsastard; Apr 24, 2007 at 3:38pm.
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Old Apr 24, 2007, 3:57pm   #5
angusg
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Yes, although I changed my mind about the river and went back and edited...

In fairness the fact that I changed my mind means the point I am making about the river push isn't so obvious, in the heat of the moment I would very likely do the same thing.
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Old Apr 24, 2007, 7:23pm   #6
msc1204
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Thanks a lot for your feedback... it sounded harsh reading it first but after reading it a couple of times it sounds good and gives me room to improve. Actually I did profit from your feedback several hours later on Full Tilt.

Starting a new hand (#535626486)
Texas Holdem NL $0.10/$0.20 - 2007-04-24 15:59:54 Server
Table Princess (Beginner)
Seat 1: J10 ( $21.80 )
Seat 2: Dec ( $1.80 )
Seat 3: LEX ( $14 )
Seat 4: cal ( $19.70 )
Seat 5: Kim ( $10.40 )
Seat 6: msc120472 ( $23.70 )
Seat 7: neg ( $4.60 )
Seat 8: 77B ( $3.90 )
Seat 9: SON ( $19.95 )
Seat 10: Evi ( $20.45 )
negator0302 posts Small Blind $0.10
77B posts Big Blind $0.20
Kim posts Big Blind $0.30
Dealing cards
Your cards Kh As [msc120472]
SON calls $0.20
Evi folds
J10 calls $0.20
Dec folds
LEX folds
cal calls $0.20
Kim checks
msc120472 raises $1.20
neg calls $1.10
77B folds
SON folds
J10 calls $1
cal calls $1
Kim folds
Dealing Flop Ah Ad 3h
neg checks
J10 checks
cal checks
msc120472 bets $4
neg folds
J10 calls $4
cal folds
Dealing Turn Ah Ad 3h 2s
J10 checks
msc120472 bets $10.40
J10 folds
Winner is msc120472 $23.25
#EOG.

I thing the main problem with me betting here was that I wanted the guy to stay in the pot and flip over my trip queens in the end thinking "in your face..." I should have bet more and taken the money I could...

Again thanks for your feedback...

MSc
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Old Apr 25, 2007, 3:17am   #7
angusg
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Nice one, well played.

Your pot sized bet on the flop meant it would have been a mistake for someone to call with a flush draw, but you did get a caller which is what you want. You want to find that magic number where you will get paid off but you are not pricing drawing hands in. Betting big here is definitely the right move because (a) you're playing 10NL where people will call big bets with inferior hands; (b) you're playing 4-handed, which means it's more likely one of your opponents has a hand that will pay you off; (c) the fact that it's 4-handed means you can't pussy-foot around with half-pot bets or the like, because if you get one caller then suddenly the odds have improved for the other players still in the hand.

The shove on the turn is also good I think, any Ace would have paid you off, a loose player might still call with a flush draw, and the pot is now big enough that you are getting all the money in by the river regardless.

The only thing I would do differently would be to raise more preflop, with 3 limpers I am making it $1.40-$1.60 here (4-5xbb + 1bb per limper). You don't really want to play AK 4-handed if you can avoid it because most of the time you are not hitting such a magical flop. If you had only hit a single A or K on the flop, with 3 other players in the hand you would have to be a lot more nervous about a set or two pair.
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