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Old Sep 10, 2007, 11:32pm   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iestyn75 View Post
A raise of 400 would, I think, have taken this down preflop.
Hey mate, I got called by 45 vs 10 10 , I think I got a good deal , just a bad beat .
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Old Sep 11, 2007, 5:23am   #12
Iestyn75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grailer View Post
Hey mate, I got called by 45 vs 10 10 , I think I got a good deal , just a bad beat .
You missed the point I'm making which is to do with what that sort of play will return to you long time. Most often, you will pick up the blinds, and if that's you're intention, I think you can do it by risking less. Risking less means that if you ARE behind, you can save your life because you lost less. When you ARE called, most often it's going to be either 50/50 for you or worse. This hand is the exception, not the rule, in my experience at this level, even for turbo tournys.

No-one is denying the bad beat. But that doesn't make your play optimum either. I still don't think your move would work often enough to be profitable long term, even without bad beats.
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Old Sep 11, 2007, 6:16am   #13
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I'm pretty confident that shoving TT in this spot is +EV, for that matter shoving any two cards here is probably +EV, the question is whether it is the most +EV way to play the hand.
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Old Sep 11, 2007, 12:46pm   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grailer View Post
Hey mate, I got called by 45 vs 10 10 , I think I got a good deal , just a bad beat .
Preflop:
Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ts Td 1319399 77.05 384563 22.46 8342 0.49 0.773
5c 4c 384563 22.46 1319399 77.05 8342 0.49 0.227

Postflop:
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing Kc Qc Jd
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ts Td 601 60.71 362 36.57 27 2.73 0.621
5c 4c 362 36.57 601 60.71 27 2.73 0.379

Turn:
Holdem Hi: 44 enumerated boards containing Kc Qc Jd 4h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ts Td 30 68.18 14 31.82 0 0.00 0.682
5c 4c 14 31.82 30 68.18 0 0.00 0.318

That's no bad beat. With both of you shoving, he's going to win 22% of the time. This was one of those times.
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Old Sep 11, 2007, 11:05pm   #15
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Yeah I think in future I will just use standard play instead of a shove .

I raise 5x bb and flop comes I bet pot and he definatly folds his 45

or goes all in then I would have to lay down 10 10 to the overcards

either way he would have to be a maniac to call the flop bet.
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