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Old Nov 29, 2007, 4:26pm   #11
chefski
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Originally Posted by BCage View Post

1) I don't always cbet these in position. If you hit top pair it is often difficult to get three streets of value out of it. Your hand is not always good enough to play a very big pot with, so you're often forced to check at least one street. I sometimes check behind on the flop with top pair hands to get more value out of other weak hands, because people will rarely call three streets when they're weak. Secondly, if you face a very aggressive opponent your cbet might get raised and you'll be in trouble. It sucks to have to play a big pot with one pair hands, so I'll sometimes check and bet or call the turn.

Situational. If I hit and want someone to pay for the turn or feel someone has a weaker kicker, I want to reduce the field and not potentially give free cards. Plus, it gives me valuable information if someone is sitting on bigger hands.

2) If there are overcards I am not always cbetting for the same reasons. Our hand can't stand a raise and I want to get to showdown cheaply if i can.

I like to pay for info here. If I've got pocket K's and an ace flops, I do not to like assume someone hit it and/or if can represent a bigger ace to weak ones, or push out other pairs that may be scared of the ace as well. I will almost always pay for the info early so I can know who has the ace.

Note that the default play is to cbet when you hit, but I sometimes do any of the above to mix it up and to get to showdown cheaply with marginal hands. For this to work you should be in position and the flop should be relatively dry (ie. little or no draws).



1) You should cbet almost always in this situation. There is no other way to take the pot down for you. Just cbet the flop and give up when faced with resistance.

It's feel, but when in a multi-pot, you're usually spending good money after bad here.

2) I don't like slowplaying, it is usually counter productive. Playing big hands fast is often more deceptive than playing it slow. I need to be very sure that it is more profitable to give people some free cards to slowplay.

Very table/player dependent. This to me falls in to the category of not scaring off opponents or giving away your hand. Much more value to me a long as there is nothing seemingly that can hurt you too bad to give a free card.

3) Same as before. The other reason is that cbetting should be your default play. This means that you should bet on flops that missed you as well as on flops you hit. If people see you cbetting with air than it it is probably better to just bet when you hit big as it is just as deceptive as slowplaying.

4) If I hit a decent draw I usually cbet it. It is the perfect time to semi-bluff. If you get called you have outs to hit your hand on the turn. Another advantage is that your opponent is likely to give you a free river if you bet the flop. If you don't hit your draw on the turn you equity is reduced so you have the option to take a free card or to try a second barrel.

Yeah, here it is 50/50 for me. There is something to be said for disguising your draw with a CB. I like to do it with big flush draws if I feel others are on draws as well. What I do not like is someone making it too expensive for my draw, so a bet at least controls that.
All good stuff...but I think the main thing as already mentioned, there is the "feel" element here along with several other situational factors that come in to play - past hands/confrontations, table image, stack sizes, nature of how you're running and the varying combinations of the board/flop. I think for me, the CB (or not to) has to have a definitive goal and not just a rote move because you are expected.

Take this situation yesterday 2/3 NL $300 buy-in:

I had a very tight table image because I was getting total crap cards all day and barely was in much, my stack was down to $200 from $300, it was a very active table with lots of big stacks, and I was missing everything all day. I'm in mid-pos. and get dealt 9/7s. I raise to $15, only get one caller, the BB and the big stack.

The flop comes A, J, 8. Now I know that I am expected to CB here as everyone puts me on an ace. I know if I CB, he folds and I win only $15. I decide to check it quickly, the turn comes a 3, he bets out $20, I raise to $50 and he folds showing me pocket 5's. In this case I did a rare thing as well and showed my 9/7, only because I could not get action with any of my big hands and needed to work on putting ?? on my image.

So, my point here is that CBs are tricky at best and you should not get in to a habit of making them as rote moves. Decide the goal and what is going to happen on 4th and 5th streets as well. What drives me crazy is when I am in a circle of making them at the wrong time and then not making them when I should have. I guess that is just part of the variance and sometimes you're on/off on your decisions.
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Old Dec 02, 2007, 1:43pm   #12
Joes28
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flops u have the best hand
flops u have a good draw
flops where u wont have to fire 2 barrells
flops u have little/no chance of winning if ur opp hit

sometimes check behind- flops u have a mediocre/bad draw, but might get paid semi big if u hit, u hit and want to control pot size, u want to induce bluffs.


basically, id rather cbet 92o on a KJ4 flop than AQ a lot of the time. If I bet AQ on this flop im probably 2 barrelling it, unless i hit a pair on the turn.
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Old Dec 03, 2007, 11:36am   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joes28 View Post
basically, id rather cbet 92o on a KJ4 flop than AQ a lot of the time. If I bet AQ on this flop im probably 2 barrelling it, unless i hit a pair on the turn.
Um why don't you just check behind on the turn then if betting the turn again is -EV. Assuming you are in position of course.
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Old Dec 03, 2007, 9:19pm   #14
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im not saying its always -ev, im just saying that u have no benefit of checking 92o there. If you check behind (occasionaly or a certain % of the time)AQ there you have some value because a ten makes a lot of ur opponents hands aswell (which they might fold on the flop, or raise u off ur draw even though u might have the best hand/a lot of outs).
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