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Old Mar 05, 2008, 4:01pm   #1
Timbilo
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Default 50NL- AK vs Habitual Limper OOP + tough flop

Hello everyone. I am interested in having my play critiqued on the following hand, specifically the turn. My bet sizing against opponents with middling stacks is an area I can still improve.

Reads:
The villian is a habitual limper, and believe it or not is a limp/folder. In the last 5 orbits this scenario played out at least 3 times: Villian open-limps on the button, sb completes, I raise from the BB, villian instant folds.

Table as a whole seems tight. I've made my $3 profit so far on raising preflop & stealing blinds.

I'm can't decide if my check/push ends up being a good line, or maybe check/call + check/call river works better in extracting value from hands I'm beating and limiting loses from hands I'm losing too (say QJ if the villian checks behind on the river). Maybe others lead the turn and either call a push or fold to a push (based on this weak/tight opponent's image)?

Hand #1430012310001306: Pebble Beach (6-Max) 12310
Seat 1: CashFlow* (21.50 in chips)
Seat 2: Paratek (42.35 in chips)
Seat 3: mrsdolphin13 (33.00 in chips)
Seat 8: worldtavern (6.95 in chips)
Seat 9: A Microwave (53.30 in chips)
Seat 10: blackmamba42 (80.10 in chips)
A Microwave: posts small blind $0.25
blackmamba42: posts big blind $0.50
Dealt to A Microwave [ ]
CashFlow*: folds
Paratek: folds
mrsdolphin13: calls
worldtavern: folds
A Microwave: raises to $3.25
blackmamba42: folds
mrsdolphin13: calls
### F L O P ### [ ]
A Microwave: bets $5.95
mrsdolphin13: calls
*** TURN *** [ ]
A Microwave: checks
mrsdolphin13: bets $9.45
A Microwave: is all in $44.10
mrsdolphin13: folds
A Microwave: returns uncalled bet $34.65
*** SHOW DOWN ***
A Microwave: mucks
A Microwave wins $35.95
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Old Mar 05, 2008, 4:12pm   #2
eric melvin rules
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I'm not a huge fan of checking the turn but if you were very confident that they'd bet with their entire range then that's fine.

Shoving was good. There's a ton of draws out there and they've already put in over half their stack -- they're not folding top pair, and they're unlikely to fold a flush draw, hell even second pair might call sometimes. Pretty much the only hands that fold to your shove are hands that were very unlikely to put in any more money unless they complete a draw.
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Old Mar 05, 2008, 4:21pm   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric melvin rules View Post
I'm not a huge fan of checking the turn but if you were very confident that they'd bet with their entire range then that's fine.
Before anyone else comments, I should say that this was 100% not the case, which maybe will skew the answers to "lead out and do _X_". At the time of the check, the upcoming line was "check/call turn and reevaluate or if we go check/check on the turn, assuming the river isn't a club, check/call the river as a bluff catcher." I was at a loss as to what a weak/tight half-stack would bet, but in hindsight it probably isn't draws....

Honestly, once the player bet I thought for my entire time bank, said to myself "Screw it, there are so many draws & Ax in his range" and pushed, even though that wasn't my initial plan when checking.

Thought more of my thought process might help upcoming opinions. Flame away if need be, I can take it

Last edited by Timbilo; Mar 05, 2008 at 4:24pm.
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Old Mar 05, 2008, 5:03pm   #4
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Erm, there's not really anything wrong with this hand because the fellar's shortstacked. With ~20 in the pot and him only having 20 left behind, I'd just bet/call the turn with 11-12 outs.
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Old Mar 05, 2008, 6:40pm   #5
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you really don't want him to check the turn. I would bet here 100% of the time.

Also I don't think he should bet Ax, but if you think he bets wide then I guess crai is at least ok.
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Old Mar 05, 2008, 6:45pm   #6
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I don't think a limp/folder would bet wide but that's just me.
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Old Mar 05, 2008, 8:30pm   #7
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i agree with bubble boy, that is almost always a lead out on the turn.

the last thing you want is a check behind.
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Old Mar 05, 2008, 8:54pm   #8
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Thanks for the replies so far everyone. If I had to do it all over again I would have bet $12 into the $17 pot and then called the villian's shove if need be (only $11 more at that point).

That line seems counter-intuitive to me when I think about what I was thinking on the flop. If you are playing and hit this hand, on the flop do you initially think:

1) Nice, TP/TK in a raised pot, time to stack this middle-stack donkey.
~Or~
2) Eww.... that is one ugly flop for a single pair. Best proceed with some caution here....

My main struggle in learning 6-max is losing the tightness I learned playing full ring. I clearly thought #2, but I expect a good number of you might think #1....
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Old Mar 05, 2008, 9:15pm   #9
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If he is full stacked an competetent (making #2 a strong case) you are allowed to check the flop.

Because you won't be able to vbet 2 streets anyway (he is rarely gonna call twice with worse), and by checking you likely induce action from a wider range than by betting on this board.
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Old Mar 05, 2008, 9:56pm   #10
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Basically, they way I play these hands are to minimize my losses if he flopped better, while still getting value out of hands. This basically boils down to charging draws.

If you don't want the boiled down version, it goes like this. There are plenty of draws on that flop so AQ, AJ, QJ, and probably KT are going to raise you on the flop. I'd say the likely hood that he has a strong made hand is slim. So either he is drawing on the turn, or is holding a middle pair or weak ace. If you check, he'll probably check behind on draws, call a small bet with a weak ace or middle pair, and fold to a large bet. So the object is to balance charging draws with getting calls from weaker hands. This bet sizing depends on the player, but a little over half the pot would probably be what I'd bet. He is fairly short, so be prepared to call a shove.
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