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Old May 31, 2008, 10:21pm   #11
TWLLM
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Originally Posted by WJF84 View Post
This is $10!!!!!!!!

The opponent could call with ATC. Do you over-analyse everything in life?
I believe you mean AFC.


And seriously, even at 10plo this is definitely kkxx on the flop. They call with anything, sure, but how often to loose/passive 10plo donks (which is what you're assuming they are) bet/3bet a flop for like 40bb?! If jokeslayer had bet all three streets and the other guy was just calling down or something, then yeah, we push any river. But here, this is clearly kkxx almost every time, plo10 or not.

As for over-analyzing things, sorry for taking a poster's question seriously despite his playing low stakes. Next time I'll remember to be dismissive and derisive like you.
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Oh, and obviously, TWLLM, we'd all rather you just ruled with an iron fist of nittiness and made all decisions without consultation, but that goes without saying, right?
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Old Jun 01, 2008, 12:56am   #12
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Seriously, not everyone at .05/.10 is a spewtard and plays completely random. Some are just really nitty and passive. The vast majority of the time, unless a guy is tilting, he's not going to randomly change this pattern. If the guy has been weak-tight the whole time, what is he b/3b on the flop with other than KK and the very occasional AA? Flatting the river is fine, esp. since you are 200BB deep. This is not to say that in the moment I would even want to believe he just 1-outered me, so in practice I'd probably shove. Then again I'd prolly 4bet the flop since he likely has KK and will probably not fold. But if you've been playing with him long enough to have him pegged as weak-tight then you have to just hope he has AA and flat this.

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Old Jun 01, 2008, 6:12pm   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TWLLM View Post
(1) why was this thread dug up? Please don't tell me someone was helping TG by moving this thread over the bridge to the new server, and it fell off the back and under the bridge.


(2) With all respect to Ishbu (who probably wipes his nose with the buyin for these stakes), pushing the river is senseless in plo - yes, even 10plo - because it is more or less inconceivable that our opponent has a FH he will call with - remember in omaha kxxx is not a full house. So either our opponent b/3b aaxx on this flop (and then called the turn), or we're crushed. Since there is no other conceivable FH that is calling us here, shoving is atrocious since kkxx is a far (ie. no less than 90/10) larger portion of his range than aaxx.

I suppose since this is $10plo you can factor in a small % for misreading his hand? But that % goes down when you shove imo, because he will likely look at his hand a second time, lowering the misread equity.

Anyway, the way this guy played it, we are essentially never good, but since it's $10plo folding quads is just too dirty. But shoving is burning $.
Trust me I understand where you are coming from here. In fact I would not even have replied had I seen that the thread had been bumped from a month ago basically. The biggest mistake in this hand is not shoving the river, its getting more money on the flop and turn. They should have been all-in anyway. Not to say that justifies a bad shove but I just can't give $10NL Omaha players too much credit. But I have never played that level before.
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Old Jun 02, 2008, 6:48am   #14
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Old Jun 02, 2008, 7:07am   #15
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Shoving the rive is awful here. Even with hands like AAxx or maybe AKxx on this level shoving should be -EV all the time.

If You say "WTF its just 6 more bucks and I allways want to shove quads!" then shoving is ok, if You want to play seriously on this level just call the river. I cant see a fold here on this level tbh and even with the fact the guy had KKxx in this hand he will show up often enough with AAxx or even AKxx to make a call at least zero EV...
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Old Jun 02, 2008, 8:22pm   #16
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geeee ... even on PLO100 folding is -EV .... at least when it´s 5 bucks to call

reraise on the flop .... don´t even think that they will fold, cause u check-raised!

i saw peaple on "higher" Limits calling down with weird holdings you can´t imagine
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