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Old Oct 25, 2009, 11:49pm   #1
GoldfishUltraDeluxe
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Default Bet bottom two?

Recent hand on WPX, can't find the HH...no search functionality in their client and I can't find any proper HH-files.

I'm on BB with

2 limpers + SB, I check

Flop is



Checked around

Turn:



SB checks


Should I bet? Can anyone find a composite range of the two limpers which makes it perfectly reasonable for me to bet? (Connectors etc is a decent part of their limping range, and I think Axs is as well. Axs that hit a pair won't fold I guess)

Pot is 2BB (big bets) and I fire 1BB which still might give them odds to call. What do I do if raised?

In case anyone wonders, I've had a week of FL for fun, played one single NL tourney and finished 8th place out of ~100. I guess I will have time to play again in December...
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Last edited by GoldfishUltraDeluxe; Oct 25, 2009 at 11:55pm.
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 1:31am   #2
killcrazy
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Originally Posted by GoldfishUltraDeluxe View Post
Pot is 2BB (big bets) and I fire 1BB which still might give them odds to call.
And what odds are you laying if you don't bet?

Quote:
What do I do if raised?
Call. With a good line on the raiser you might reraise sometimes but not often. I can be more detailed if you can tell me (i) stakes (ii) number of players dealt into the hand, (iii) what position they limped from and (iv) anything you know about the players that deviates from ABC.

Kc
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 2:45pm   #3
GoldfishUltraDeluxe
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Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
And what odds are you laying if you don't bet?
Infinity odds obv.

The point is that I may already be beat, and several callers mean I'm likely to get outdrawn by essentially anything except deuces and maybe kings.
I can save 1 or 2 BB by playing slightly cautiously....and, yes, FL is about perfection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
Call. With a good line on the raiser you might reraise sometimes but not often. I can be more detailed if you can tell me (i) stakes (ii) number of players dealt into the hand, (iii) what position they limped from and (iv) anything you know about the players that deviates from ABC.
Kc
i. Nano stakes, 0.05/0.10 (Don't laugh too much please, I have freerolled my way up on that site and the games are slightly more competitive than on other sites due to their history of giving RB.)
ii. Full ring, 10 players
iii. Limpers on MP+2, BTN, and SB...
iv. They know that I'm extremely aggressive and have adjusted somewhat. I even get called down by queen high sometimes, especially BvB.

I did bet the two pairs on the turn....results won't be posted yet.
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Last edited by GoldfishUltraDeluxe; Oct 26, 2009 at 7:46pm.
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 8:07pm   #4
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You have two pair in Limit Hold'em in a spot where one or both villains often have one pair.

BETBETBETBETBET

Although as a disclaimer, LHE is my worst game in the HORSE rotation and thats the only time I play it.

This is a pretty clear bet though imo
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 8:39pm   #5
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Easy bet
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Limit Holdem: Because All 4 Streets Matter!!

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Old Oct 28, 2009, 4:50am   #6
killcrazy
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Originally Posted by GoldfishUltraDeluxe View Post
Infinity odds obv.
Correct, except the adjective is infinite.

Quote:
The point is that I may already be beat, and several callers mean I'm likely to get outdrawn by essentially anything except deuces and maybe kings.
I can save 1 or 2 BB by playing slightly cautiously....and, yes, FL is about perfection.
You might be beat but you're probably not. The 6 makes a hand for 97, 86 and 75.

Is this a game where people are likely to limp KK and check a T8 flop?

As to being outdrawn, lets say you bet and get two callers, one with T9 (unlikely; T9 bets flop unless he's randomly pressing buttons) and another with 76, between them they have any T 9 8 7 5, a total of 15 outs. You're getting 2:1 on your bet as a 2:1 favourite over them both.

You're missing out on a tonne of value from pair+gutshot hands, the more callers you get the better tbh, they're taking each others outs and they're all contributing to your pot.

Occasionally someone shows up with a straight or a bigger 2 pair, fair enough

Incidentally limit hold'em is not about "perfection", it's about playing the percentages.

Quote:
i. Nano stakes, 0.05/0.10 (Don't laugh too much please, I have freerolled my way up on that site and the games are slightly more competitive than on other sites due to their history of giving RB.)
who's laughing? I started out playing 25c/50c - the smallest game around at the time - and worked my way up to six tabling $30/60 and higher when the action was good. little acorns, mighty oak trees.

Quote:
ii. Full ring, 10 players
iii. Limpers on MP+2, BTN, and SB...
MP+2 is 2 or 3 to the right of the button, yeah? Everyone in this pot is going to have a pretty wide range. No adjustments from my previous line based on this.

Quote:
iv. They know that I'm extremely aggressive and have adjusted somewhat. I even get called down by queen high sometimes, especially BvB.
DIES IRAE!
DIES ILLA!
SOLVET SAECLUM EN FAVILLA!
TESTE DAVIDCUM SYBILLA!

which is another way of saying you should absolutely bet two pair with this kind of table image.

Quote:
I did bet the two pairs on the turn....results won't be posted yet.
Yeah, it's an unfortunate beat, try not to let yourself be results orientated

Kc
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Old Nov 01, 2009, 1:05pm   #7
GoldfishUltraDeluxe
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Yeah, it's an unfortunate beat, try not to let yourself be results orientated
Kc
River was a jack, and I was beat by some other two-pair hand.

Vae victis...
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