Iso'd Pot King High vs. Lag

[GoldfishUltraDeluxe]

FFS, if you are going to bet out on the flop as a bluff against 2-3 players with pocket fives, that flop is exactly what you're looking for (rainbow flop is even better though).

A high card to rep and two lower cards that gives you up to 10 turn cards that can help you on further streets. In this case, the SD found its way there...

I don't like betting low pairs in to several people, but if you do it with the proper image and the flop texture screams BET, bluffing is not the only path to victory.

Obviously, the implied odds are crucial, make sure that you hit your backdoor draws against calling stations...

My flop bet size: 8.70

Folding out worse hands is not so bad here, since you don't want to have too many opponents left in the hand after the flop.

Now, I've probably made a fool out of myself by writing this post, especially as I might miss a flight unless I stop writing soon.

[killcrazy]

don't like preflop, don't like flop, don't much care for anything here really.

Kc

[Banalanal]

Some interesting feedback. Preflop I'm never limping behind here, I think it's just a style of play difference. Of all the videos I watch, I never see anyone limp with a pair in this scenario.

Whoever said the flop bet is big, I agree. I should make it smaller as I'd only 1/2 pot a king here anyways. I wanted the psychological effect of a two digit number, but yeah, smaller = better.

I watched a Galfond vid the other day and he was saying, I'm betting to protect, and because some worse will call, and because some better might fold. I think this could apply here. He might just call with a backdoor flush and gutter and I fold out some pp's that beat me. And I don't want to be six outed with his 89s suited that are still in it if I don't bet the flop.

Good feedback.

[kmay06]

Yes I am bluffing on the flop...Against what range? mid pp? A king isn't folding, you might fold a few draws that you are ahead. Flop bet into 3 people here is very thin, and about the only justification you have is that there could be lots of draws out there that you are marginally ahead of.

I don't understand how my preflop raise size is bad. How is that not a standard raise size? I'll often take it down pre and cbet profitably post, usually less callers. It's standard for a 4x+1 per caller but you are beyond the point where you need to do the standard play every time and can look at situations individually. What are you aiming to do with this hand? Play agressively and take down the pot here or on the flop? If UTG calls the 3 into 5 pot then next guy has to call only 3 into 8 pot, etc etc. You have too many limpers here. 4x+1 isn't bad, but I'd bet around 4.50 or so if your goal is to take it down there. If you want to set and stack, against everyone but UTG you don't need that big of a bet to do that, and if you bet around 2.50-3 you'd have a big enough pot to stack and more likely to get people in. Then you can easy fold/bet depending on if you hit or not. 4x+1 isn't bad here, just isn't optimal. At least imo.

Ohhh I's is so a confuseddd now

Anyhoo, ran HEM filter:
-More than 2 players saw flop This is more than 2, thus at least 3. Do a filter for more than 3. Unless HEM doens't include you in the filter as a player.
-Cbet flop = true
-Saw turn = false

Results show 342 hands in the last 90'000. 252BB/100 Fuck your green color.

Also as an aside, obv you are going to be massive +EV on the hands that you cbet the flop and don't see the turn, cause everyone is folding and giving you the pot almost everytime (sometimes you'll get raised and fold). The real test would be more than 3 players to the flop, cbet flop = true, then do one with saw turn = false and one without that filter, figure out your +EV from the hands you may or may not have seen the turn and may or may not have one, and then you can find your total EV for betting into the flop. Then run another sim for an alternate play like checking in this spot and see your EV. lots of work though so meh.

UTG: $94.79
MP: $37.42
CO: $29.70
BTN: $29.32
Hero (SB): $62.87
BB: $41.15
CO posts a big blind ($0.50)
Pre Flop: ($1.25) Hero is SB with 3 3
UTG calls $0.50, 1 fold, CO checks, BTN calls $0.50, Hero raises to $3.75, BB calls $3.25, 1 fold, CO calls $3.25, 1 fold
Flop: ($12.25) 2 7 K (3 players)
Hero bets $8.00, BB folds, CO folds

Originally Posted by Banalanal

Some interesting feedback. Preflop I'm never limping behind here, I think it's just a style of play difference. Of all the videos I watch, I never see anyone limp with a pair in this scenario.

I agree, I wouldn't limp either. I'd probably bet around 2.75 or so and let the calls come.

Whoever said the flop bet is big, I agree. I should make it smaller as I'd only 1/2 pot a king here anyways. I wanted the psychological effect of a two digit number, but yeah, smaller = better. Understandable.

I watched a Galfond vid the other day and he was saying, I'm betting to protect, and because some worse will call, and because some better might fold. I think this could apply here. He might just call with a backdoor flush and gutter and I fold out some pp's that beat me. And I don't want to be six outed with his 89s suited that are still in it if I don't bet the flop.

This is sort of a misconception. "betting to protect" is a bad reason. You are either betting because you have value over a made hand, value over a draw and you don't want to give odds to catch up, or as a bluff/semi-bluff, or a combination thereof. If you are trying to fold 89s type hands you are just folding out hands you beat, and getting called by hands that are better. You aren't against one person, you are against 3. Against that many it's unlikely you'll fold out everyone and more likely than not that you anyone who calls is either ahead or only marginally behind (pokerstove something like 89 of spades against your 55 on this board). Ya you'll get sucked out on occasionally, it happens. If you do want to bet, you can bet less to fold out random air that "might" 6 out you. But, most draws are still calling on those odds and any king is just taking your money.
Good feedback.

So basically I either bet pf to 2.50 or 2.75 and setmine, or bet pf to 4.5 and try to get to heads up on the flop. At that point, this flop bet becomes much much better.