Rule Question: Must raise with the nuts?

[Unigee]

Hi everyone,

I was in a poker tournament the other night and witnessed a ruling question that I don't understand.

Sadly I wasn't actually paying attention to the hand (I had folded), so the details are a bit sketchy.

Basically, a woman made a 1k bet after the river card had been dealt. The guy next to me had the nuts and just plain called the bet (he seemed a bit naive and didn't realize he had the nuts).
When all cards were flipped over and he took the pot, an observer on the table challenged the betting, saying that its against the rules to 'flat call the last bet when you have the nuts, you must raise'.

After a debate on the table, the dealer calls for a floor man who decides that the betting stands as there was nothing untowards was actually happening stating its 'one of those things'

So when all cards have been dealt, and its the final bet, do you have to raise when you have the nuts?

[MalcomX]

Of course you don't have to raise with the nuts.
The only thing is, that as just calling with the nuts
is a strange play, that you might get accussed of collusion.

[kmay06]

Just to clarify, as far as tournaments are concerned you may find yourself in one that includes a soft play penalty or something of the like. Essentially, unless you don't somehow didn't realize you had the nuts (or can make a case that way), some TD will put a penalty on you for not raising in a situation like that. Same with if you are last to act and you check it down. This is simply because you aren't the only one your decisions effect. You may have knocked someone out in that situation and someone else makes the money. It's obviously to prevent collusion, but even if you aren't colluding you can get penalized.

Doesn't hold in cash games, like, ever. You just miss value.

[4Kings]

Originally Posted by kmay06

Just to clarify, as far as tournaments are concerned you may find yourself in one that includes a soft play penalty or something of the like. Essentially, unless you don't somehow didn't realize you had the nuts (or can make a case that way), some TD will put a penalty on you for not raising in a situation like that. Same with if you are last to act and you check it down. This is simply because you aren't the only one your decisions effect. You may have knocked someone out in that situation and someone else makes the money. It's obviously to prevent collusion, but even if you aren't colluding you can get penalized.

Doesn't hold in cash games, like, ever. You just miss value.

wow , is this for real?
does this apply for online games too?

[killcrazy]

There are tournament considerations that might lead you towards not raising the nuts. On the bubble as a big chipleader with a passive table who are all waiting to make the money before playing, it may be in your interests to keep everyone alive and rob them all rather than bust someone.

In a cash game, you might prefer to avoid busting someone if you know they'll leave and it will encourage the game to break, or will create positional problems for you by changing who's on your big blind, who's button to your big blind, and so on.

There are always exceptions

Kc

[kmay06]

Originally Posted by 4Kings

wow , is this for real?
does this apply for online games too?

Not usually, since they have IP detection and stuff to detect collusion. Not to mention millions of tournaments to go through. It's a live rule I've run into a few times though.

[DoubleU]

Originally Posted by killcrazy

There are tournament considerations that might lead you towards not raising the nuts. On the bubble as a big chipleader with a passive table who are all waiting to make the money before playing, it may be in your interests to keep everyone alive and rob them all rather than bust someone.

In a cash game, you might prefer to avoid busting someone if you know they'll leave and it will encourage the game to break, or will create positional problems for you by changing who's on your big blind, who's button to your big blind, and so on.

There are always exceptions

Kc

I was waiting for you to post in this thread, but all this seriousness is somewhat of a letdown somehow. Shrug.

[killcrazy]

What did you expect?

Kc

[DoubleU]

Hm. Something more along the lines of your Frenchglish rant in that other thread, I guess. But it can't be Christmas every day, can it now?

[killcrazy]

I can only work with what I'm given or can reasonably expect to stuff in my shirt before security arrives. sorry.

Kc