THE FORUMS


German ForumsGeneral DiscussionStrategyFrench Forum
Old Jan 22, 2010, 12:21am   #1
killcrazy
Apex Predator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posts: 10,307
Reputation: 8118
killcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond repute
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile! This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default This Should Start An Argument

thank you to the people who woke this forum up, it encouraged me to start playing the game I own again. fuck no limit. no limit is for tv players.

Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 2: vpip34-pfr29-noreadsyet ( $483 USD )
Seat 3: Uninvolved ( $434.73 USD )
Seat 4: HERO ( $819 USD )
Seat 1: Uninvolved ( $333.50 USD )
Seat 6: Uninvolved ( $1,136 USD )
Seat 5: vpip49-pfr10-obviousloser ( $251 USD )
Uninvolved posts small blind [$5 USD].
HERO posts big blind [$10 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Jh Jc ]
49-10-obviousloser calls [$10 USD]
Uninvolved folds
34-29-noreadsyet raises [$20 USD]
Uninvolved folds
HERO calls [$10 USD]
49-10-obviousloser calls [$10 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8c, 8d, Qs ]
HERO bets [$10 USD]
49-10-obviousloser calls [$10 USD]
34-29-noreadsyet calls [$10 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5c ]
HERO checks
49-10-obviousloser checks
34-29-noreadsyet bets [$20 USD]
HERO calls [$20 USD]
49-10-obviousloser calls [$20 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ 6c ]
HERO checks
49-10-obviousloser bets [$20 USD]
34-29-noreadsyet calls [$20 USD]
HERO folds

discuss.

Kc
__________________
"Blah blah blah KC is right" - Ozone
killcrazy est déconnecté   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Don't like this ad? Register to make it go away!

Old Jan 22, 2010, 12:41am   #2
the_fox31
Resident Fox
 
the_fox31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,314
Reputation: 1002
the_fox31 has much to be proud ofthe_fox31 has much to be proud ofthe_fox31 has much to be proud ofthe_fox31 has much to be proud ofthe_fox31 has much to be proud ofthe_fox31 has much to be proud ofthe_fox31 has much to be proud ofthe_fox31 has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
thank you to the people who woke this forum up, it encouraged me to start playing the game I own again. fuck no limit. no limit is for tv players.

Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 2: vpip34-pfr29-noreadsyet ( $483 USD )
Seat 3: Uninvolved ( $434.73 USD )
Seat 4: HERO ( $819 USD )
Seat 1: Uninvolved ( $333.50 USD )
Seat 6: Uninvolved ( $1,136 USD )
Seat 5: vpip49-pfr10-obviousloser ( $251 USD )
Uninvolved posts small blind [$5 USD].
HERO posts big blind [$10 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Jh Jc ]
49-10-obviousloser calls [$10 USD]
Uninvolved folds
34-29-noreadsyet raises [$20 USD]
Uninvolved folds
HERO calls [$10 USD]
49-10-obviousloser calls [$10 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8c, 8d, Qs ]
HERO bets [$10 USD]
49-10-obviousloser calls [$10 USD]
34-29-noreadsyet calls [$10 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5c ]
HERO checks
49-10-obviousloser checks
34-29-noreadsyet bets [$20 USD]
HERO calls [$20 USD]
49-10-obviousloser calls [$20 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ 6c ]
HERO checks
49-10-obviousloser bets [$20 USD]
34-29-noreadsyet calls [$20 USD]
HERO folds

discuss.

Kc
The turn check is impressive. I would have bet without a second thought, but I guess you're right most of the time here. I'm assuming you're putting him on a good Queen (or 3), KK and AA?

The turn call is what I will have to have explained to me. Clearly you can't be looking at a river bluff. Even if the river would suddenly become NL and it was heads up it doesn't look doable.

The river fold looks standard for a different reason (loser just sucked out, no reads obviously can't let go of a pretty hand like AQ or KK), but if I had my eyes open enough to check the turn, I think I'd fold as well.

Edit: oh, and it's probably been like 4 years since I've played limit. So...
__________________
We will die so gloriously that ever having lived will seem like folly. ~ Comeau
the_fox31 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 22, 2010, 1:21am   #3
killcrazy
Apex Predator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posts: 10,307
Reputation: 8118
killcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond repute
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile! This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_fox31 View Post
The turn check is impressive. I would have bet without a second thought, but I guess you're right most of the time here. I'm assuming you're putting him on a good Queen (or 3), KK and AA?

The turn call is what I will have to have explained to me. Clearly you can't be looking at a river bluff. Even if the river would suddenly become NL and it was heads up it doesn't look doable.
i'd like someone to explain it to me too. i don't know how i manage to get it right as often as i do. i'll let some more people tell me what i did wrong before giving my nonsensical explanation of what i was thinking.

i play weird.

Kc
__________________
"Blah blah blah KC is right" - Ozone
killcrazy est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 22, 2010, 1:37am   #4
SwoopAE
CAPITAO
 
SwoopAE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 13,271
Reputation: 4070
SwoopAE has a reputation beyond reputeSwoopAE has a reputation beyond reputeSwoopAE has a reputation beyond reputeSwoopAE has a reputation beyond reputeSwoopAE has a reputation beyond reputeSwoopAE has a reputation beyond reputeSwoopAE has a reputation beyond reputeSwoopAE has a reputation beyond reputeSwoopAE has a reputation beyond reputeSwoopAE has a reputation beyond reputeSwoopAE has a reputation beyond repute
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile! This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile! This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

I don't call the turn much unless i'm going to showdown but i'm horrible at LHE and I fold too many turns so how you played it is probably fine?
__________________
Chat Monitor (Support): SwoopAE has lost their chat privilege for 5 minutes. Spamming the table is prohibited.

SwoopAE est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 22, 2010, 5:05am   #5
joeyjoejoejr
Professional
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,171
Reputation: 1441
joeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud of
Default

I think your giving up to much value by not three betting preflop, noreadsyet is isolating the fish so wide and you have JJ....

If I did call pre for some reason, I ck raise flop.
If fish cold calls 2 bets I can probably ck fold turn.
joeyjoejoejr est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 22, 2010, 9:16am   #6
ElKabong
River Rat
 
ElKabong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The barren snowy wasteland (Sweden)
Posts: 24
Reputation: 0
ElKabong is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

I just woke up and I feel like I picked up an extra chromosome during the night. 5/10 is a bit out of my league as well, but since i have 2c to spare.

I'd raise the hell out of my JJ preflop. Against someone raising from button you should be ahead most of the time preflop. With a little luck the limper would fold there too and if you get more action from button you at least get some more info. Raising from button against a limper is one thing but with a cap he really likes his cards.

As played I'm not sure I'd open bet the flop, although I would if I showed aggression preflop. Probably a check raise to try to drive obviousloser out of the pot and then lead the turn and check call the river. Checkraising the flop on a paired board usually sends the message that you hit the trips too. If the checkraise fails and I get a free card I'd bet out the turn instead and check call the river.

If I call the turn I wouldn't fold the river either. Sure noreadsyet could have AQ, AA or KK, but there is just so much to raise with from button. Granted obviousloser could have a Q or even an 8 but he could also limp a mid pocket pair and taking a stab at something that looks like a flop bluff on a paired board. Some people always open bet with an ace or so on a paired flop at my limits, but's that's more or less the micros. Fold the turn or call the river.
ElKabong est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 22, 2010, 7:20pm   #7
Boomer2k6
TWLLM'ing My Showdowns
 
Boomer2k6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Northwich, Cheshire, England
Posts: 1,995
Reputation: 189
Boomer2k6 has a spectacular aura aboutBoomer2k6 has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to Boomer2k6 Send a message via MSN to Boomer2k6 Send a message via Skype™ to Boomer2k6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
fuck no limit. no limit is for tv players
This imo

Quote:

Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 2: vpip34-pfr29-noreadsyet ( $483 USD )
Seat 3: Uninvolved ( $434.73 USD )
Seat 4: HERO ( $819 USD )
Seat 1: Uninvolved ( $333.50 USD )
Seat 6: Uninvolved ( $1,136 USD )
Seat 5: vpip49-pfr10-obviousloser ( $251 USD )
Uninvolved posts small blind [$5 USD].
HERO posts big blind [$10 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Jh Jc ]
49-10-obviousloser calls [$10 USD]
Uninvolved folds
34-29-noreadsyet raises [$20 USD]
Uninvolved folds
HERO calls [$10 USD]
49-10-obviousloser calls [$10 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8c, 8d, Qs ]
HERO bets [$10 USD]
49-10-obviousloser calls [$10 USD]
34-29-noreadsyet calls [$10 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5c ]
HERO checks
49-10-obviousloser checks
34-29-noreadsyet bets [$20 USD]
HERO calls [$20 USD]
49-10-obviousloser calls [$20 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ 6c ]
HERO checks
49-10-obviousloser bets [$20 USD]
34-29-noreadsyet calls [$20 USD]
HERO folds

discuss.

Kc
With a 50/10 openlimping and a 34/29 isolating from the button I'm 3-betting here pre-flop and I think there's too much value not to do so. We can build a big pot and punish the button for what we presume is wide isolation.

I understand there are a lot of theories re: not 3-betting/capping from the Big Blind under certain circumstances etc in LHE but on this occasion I don't think it matters that much since my 3-betting range is wide enough and the ranges are weak enough from my opponents that I want to take advantage now. That plus balancing your range isn't horrifically important when one of the players is a super-exploitable fish. Off the top of my head I'd probably 3-bet down to 77 at least for PP's here and maybe 66 too.

*Random pre-flop equity calc*

http://www.PokerStrategy.com
46,180,393 games processed in 25 seconds.

Board:
Dead:

Equity Win Tie Loss Hand
Player 1: 21.333 % 20.707 % 1.364 % 77.930 % 66-22, ATs-A2s, K2s+, Q3s+, J6s+, T7s+, 98s, AQo-A2o, K2o+, Q6o+, J7o+, T9o
Player 2: 24.914 % 24.066 % 1.808 % 74.126 % 22+, A2s+, K6s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, 97s+, 87s, A5o+, K8o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o, 98o
Player 3: 53.753 % 53.237 % 1.143 % 45.621 % JJ

Not a precise art but you get the gist (Top 50%-Top 5% for Hand 1 and a standard-ish button iso-range for Hand 2)

I'm not sure I understand your intention with the flop donk rather than a x/r. Are you doing it for value trying to keep the fish in and hope the 34/29 folds because he's overcalling? Are you bet/folding?

Let's re-check the equities:

http://www.PokerStrategy.com
42,928,551 games processed in 19 seconds.

Board: Qs 8d 8c
Dead:

Equity Win Tie Loss Hand
Player 1: 24.415 % 23.414 % 2.131 % 74.456 % 66-22, ATs-A2s, K2s+, Q3s+, J6s+, T7s+, 98s, AQo-A2o, K2o+, Q6o+, J7o+, T9o
Player 2: 29.940 % 28.662 % 2.682 % 68.655 % 22+, A2s+, K6s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, 97s+, 87s, A5o+, K8o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o, 98o
Player 3: 45.645 % 45.097 % 1.224 % 53.679 % JJ

You still have huge equity vs their ranges so I like a x/r here. If we do manage to iso vs the button that's fine too and HU the pot will be easier to play....more than likely resulting in a showdown.

If the Fish takes 2 cold, or worse 3-bets, then you can re-examine where you are on the turn.

As played when you get to the turn I think c/c is potentailly fine because everyone can bluff once and a 34/29 is high on my list of "guys who will more than likely bluff" however once it's called behind and the super weak player bets the river folding is fine, I think overcalling the river here would be pretty bad. The pot's not big enough to make a hero call, I'd say you win here ~5% of the time if that and you're only getting 9-1.

As played the 2 bones of contention are the flop donk the turn check but I'd like to hear your thought process on them. Is it a bluff-induction where you'll call if Mr Laggro bets but fold if Obvious Loser bets? Since the pot's small because of the lack of a 3-bet pre I don't mind inducing here but overall I would have played it a little differently, not saying that's correct mind

As for the "Why call turn and fold river" guys I'm thinking it's who bet as opposed to non-improvement (*Hint - It isn't the LAG who bets first on the river)
__________________
BLOG FWIW!!

Limit Holdem: Because All 4 Streets Matter!!

You've Nowhere to Hide
Nowhere to Run
You're Rage, It'll
BURN Like the Heart of the Sun!!
With Infinite Glee
It's Going to be Me
That Minbets The World!!!


Last edited by Boomer2k6; Jan 22, 2010 at 7:52pm.
Boomer2k6 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2010, 1:02am   #8
killcrazy
Apex Predator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posts: 10,307
Reputation: 8118
killcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond repute
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile! This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

the short explanation for most of this hand is, sometimes in poker we vary our play. usually this is a 3bet preflop, though there are good reasons to not push early in a hand in limit, you can make it harder for draws to hang around later and thus increase your equity, this is far more relevant on the flop than it is preflop (how often do you flop a draw? not often, so preflop this is close to negligable), but i might as well mention it because i like tangents.

the flop checkraise is going to happen more often than the donk but given that i limped, i risk hurting my action with a checkraise. A checkraise will push the fish off all the hands he wants to play that have <10% equity like 66. finally, i'm going to get reasonably solid information if I get raised.

the turn check was for value, i think i have the best hand around 80% of the time and I don't think anyone is terribly live against me. It smelt like pfr was pealing so he's pretty much gone if i bet again, but i felt there was a pretty good chance he'd take a stab. donking this flop and continuing on the turn, i either have a very strong hand or air, from the way i had been playing at the table, the chances of me having air would have been very low. if i didn't think pfr was going to take a shot, i bet the turn to get value from the fish. there's also the minor consideration of, someone might have me beat and raise.

by the time the river is dealt, i'd pretty much eliminated queens and eights from both players ranges based on the action and the timing. the fish would have raised by now, pfr is hard pressed to have an 8 in his range anyway and i felt he would have raised a queen on the flop. when the river came i was more than 90% sure i had the best hand, so why not bet? because i'm weird. i figured if i bet i'd get a call from the fish and pfr would likely fold, 1 bet, but if i check and pfr bets again, i call, fish overcalls, 2 bets. If there's more than a 50% chance that pfr will bet, this line gets more in the pot. that's the math explanation which had nothing to do with my decision, i just felt he was going to bet, so I let him.

as it turned out, that 5% chance that the fish had rivered me happened instead, the river fold is pretty straightforward, because i'm beat here way more than the 90% i'd need to call on the river.

i've probably explained my thinking in an even more confusing manner than i usually do because my girlfriend has just turned up with dinner. the long and the short of it is, do what i say, not what i do

Kc
__________________
"Blah blah blah KC is right" - Ozone
killcrazy est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2010, 4:26am   #9
Snaggle
Professional
 
Snaggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: from the land of the "free"
Posts: 2,853
Reputation: 979
Snaggle is a splendid one to beholdSnaggle is a splendid one to beholdSnaggle is a splendid one to beholdSnaggle is a splendid one to beholdSnaggle is a splendid one to beholdSnaggle is a splendid one to beholdSnaggle is a splendid one to beholdSnaggle is a splendid one to behold
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile! This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile! This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile! This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

Quote:
thank you to the people who woke this forum up, it encouraged me to start playing the game I own again. fuck no limit. no limit is for tv players.-KC

Kc once you've taken the red pill you're ours forever, you should have taken the blue one




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBGjpN3HMqo
__________________
__________________________________________

Why do people keep typing "GG" when I go AI in the short stack with 72o?

Last edited by Snaggle; Jan 23, 2010 at 12:54pm.
Snaggle est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2010, 5:17am   #10
killcrazy
Apex Predator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posts: 10,307
Reputation: 8118
killcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond repute
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile! This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

[quote=Snaggle;853968]
Quote:
thank you to the people who woke this forum up, it encouraged me to start playing the game I own again. fuck no limit. no limit is for tv players.-KC]


Kc once you've taken the red pill you're ours forever, you should have taken the blue one
i love limit hold'em so much. everyone is wrong about basically everything. it's awesome.

Kc
__________________
"Blah blah blah KC is right" - Ozone
killcrazy est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 9:04pm. vBulletin 3.7.4 Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.