THE FORUMS


German ForumsGeneral DiscussionStrategyFrench Forum
Old Sep 08, 2010, 2:08am   #1
juicetoocool
Doyle Look-alike
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 338
Reputation: 36
juicetoocool is on a distinguished road
Default Trouble with QQ preflop.

Edit: Sorry about so much text...

I posted a hand similar to this the other day. The advice seemed to be "don't 4 bet if you aren't going to call a shove." However, I'm finding in these spots vs the regulars (they aren't a problem vs a fish of course) that I don't know which is the best play at all. I can't simply outright fold can I (though it seems like the best play).

If I flat call, I'm not avoiding any problems, unless the flop saves me with an A or K, I'm losing all my money to what I was wondering if my opponent had anyways. If I 4 bet, and he shoves, then I know it's safe to fold, but it seems like a waste of chips.
I'm also wondering vs a reg what to do if he opens. 3 betting/folding to a shove/4bet is ok?

There are also some other spots preflop where I think I may be playing a little weak, but it seems like the right play at the time. Just posting some examples.

Also in this particular spot with QQ here, the villain is a solid reg BUT I do have
8/4/43 over a large sample and i have a note that he folded to my 4bet before, which would imply that he is capable of laying down worse hands and would only shove better ones (or maybe AK).
$0.05/$0.10 No Limit Holdem
AbsolutePoker
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG Hero ($10.20)
UTG+1 ARCH ACES ($1.46)
MP1 MRMAB ($12.17)
MP2 JOKERHAND00 ($9.85)
CO HAWKFAN111 ($10.16)
BTN PYRIDE ($4.33)
SB BBONES69 ($6.38)
BB TARMSPRACKAR ($26.26)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15, 8 players) Hero is UTG
Hero raises to $0.35, 6 folds, TARMSPRACKAR raises to $1.20, $0.85 to Hero ($9.85)?


Too weak? Think it's standard...
$0.05/$0.10 No Limit Holdem
AbsolutePoker
9 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ARCH ACES ($2.07)
UTG+1 LAWRENCEF ($9.09)
MP1 ERNIEWINKLES ($11.59)
MP2 RUEAL ($11.33)
MP3 A6R6T ($11)
CO LAWRIN ($9.58)
BTN BBONES69 ($2.79)
SB Hero ($10.99)
BB CUTTERPRO ($2.28)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15, 9 players) Hero is SB
ARCH ACES calls $0.10, LAWRENCEF calls $0.10, 2 folds, A6R6T raises to $0.55, 2 folds, Hero folds, 1 fold, ARCH ACES folds, LAWRENCEF folds

Final Pot: $0.90

A6R6T wins $0.90 (net +$0.35)

ARCH ACES lost $0.10
LAWRENCEF lost $0.10


$0.05/$0.10 No Limit Holdem
AbsolutePoker
9 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG TARMSPRACKAR ($21.88)
UTG+1 BBONES69 ($1.85)
MP1 ERNIEWINKLES ($10)
MP2 A6R6T ($9.79)
MP3 PSYCHMAN99 ($3.63)
CO LAWRIN ($28.24)
BTN DRL1 ($13.72)
SB PAPPYMIKE ($11.90)
BB Hero ($9.92)

8/4/41 with 2% 3bets over 1.5k hands. Winning player.
Pre-Flop: ($0.15, 9 players) Hero is BB
2 folds, ERNIEWINKLES calls $0.10, A6R6T raises to $0.20, 2 folds, DRL1 calls $0.20, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1, ERNIEWINKLES raises to $4.05, A6R6T folds, DRL1 folds, $3.05 to Hero ($8.92)?
__________________
gl hf.
juicetoocool est déconnecté   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Don't like this ad? Register to make it go away!

Old Sep 08, 2010, 4:02am   #2
joeyjoejoejr
Professional
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,171
Reputation: 1441
joeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud of
Default

Hand 1 -
if Villian really is 8/4 over a reasonable sample than this is a easy fold. And anybody that is playing 8/4 is not a "solid reg" they are a horrible player thats is folding WAY to much that should pretty much never be given action.

Even against some okay players on the tighter side (say like 12/10) you can fold QQ pre given your UTG position and his position in the BB.

Also if a regular opens in EP it is fine just to flat QQ if you think he will fold everything worse. If you do 3bet QQ it should usually be because it is a spot you are comfortable getting it all in.

3betting with the plan of folding to a 4bet would only be good if you think that he wont 4bet without AK,KK,AA but he will flat the 3bet often with worse. This might happen in $10 games enough to make it the best play with QQ but is not something that will happen against good players.

Hand 2. Does this villian often pound on limpers? Ie if it was me there my range would be very wide isolating them and folding AQ would be a mistake.

Hand 3. You can get away with folding. I suspect cold 4bets are always the nuts in $10 games and he is obviously is never folding after making it 4.05. Villian sizing here is a pretty large mistake (he should be making it about 2.4-2.6 to at least allow the possiblity that he is not commited)
joeyjoejoejr est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 08, 2010, 5:13am   #3
juicetoocool
Doyle Look-alike
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 338
Reputation: 36
juicetoocool is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyjoejoejr View Post
Hand 1 -
if Villian really is 8/4 over a reasonable sample than this is a easy fold. And anybody that is playing 8/4 is not a "solid reg" they are a horrible player thats is folding WAY to much that should pretty much never be given action.

Even against some okay players on the tighter side (say like 12/10) you can fold QQ pre given your UTG position and his position in the BB.

Also if a regular opens in EP it is fine just to flat QQ if you think he will fold everything worse. If you do 3bet QQ it should usually be because it is a spot you are comfortable getting it all in.

3betting with the plan of folding to a 4bet would only be good if you think that he wont 4bet without AK,KK,AA but he will flat the 3bet often with worse. This might happen in $10 games enough to make it the best play with QQ but is not something that will happen against good players.

Hand 2. Does this villian often pound on limpers? Ie if it was me there my range would be very wide isolating them and folding AQ would be a mistake.

Hand 3. You can get away with folding. I suspect cold 4bets are always the nuts in $10 games and he is obviously is never folding after making it 4.05. Villian sizing here is a pretty large mistake (he should be making it about 2.4-2.6 to at least allow the possiblity that he is not commited)

This helps so much, THANK YOU
__________________
gl hf.
juicetoocool est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 08, 2010, 10:35am   #4
podbelski
Doyle Look-alike
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 293
Reputation: 402
podbelski is just really nicepodbelski is just really nicepodbelski is just really nicepodbelski is just really nicepodbelski is just really nice
Default

Hand 1: also, sometimes it's ok to call to setmine vs such nits, the deeper you are the better.
As for your question how to call with QQ and not go broke postflop vs KK/AA/sets it depends on who you are playing against. Calling with QQ is great if you know the villain's preflop all-in range is rather tight, but you stand ok vs his 3bet range, and you know he's a straightforward player, like 10-tabling tight reg. This means he will put a standard cbet like always, and shut down UI with overcards, and likely slow down with TT/JJ. It still can be tricky, and on some flops you have to go broke, but I mean there are tons of flops like 7J23 and he fires two healthy barrels and you fold the turn safely, or he cbets and then checks and you have the best hand.
And, if the villain is not a nit or a tight reg as above, I like stacking off with QQ pre.

Hand 2: I think I can fold QJ there, but AQ is way too strong. You can either 3bet it to take down pre/play HU pot, or can flat which is good cause the fish comes along but bad cause you are OOP multiway w AQo...

Hand 3: I really hate limp-reraisers, and it depends on what he is thinking about the game... some villains do this with QQ/KK/AA/AK, others mix in any crap they find pretty... situational, but w/o at least AK/JJ+ I'm folding

Last edited by podbelski; Sep 08, 2010 at 11:29am.
podbelski est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 4:50pm. vBulletin 3.7.4 Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.