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Old Dec 01, 2010, 9:25pm   #11
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Loder89: You're making it difficult to quote you by putting your response inside the quoted text. Not much of a problem this time, since I only wanted to quote this:

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Originally Posted by Loder89
I doubt he is trying to fold out an Ace since CO almost never has one when he doens't bet the Turn. He probably tries to get him off a better Pair. Not sure if I like it since he repping nothing aswell...
I think he does. Checking behind on the turn with a flush draw on a 4-straight board isn't a bad play, so he might have a flush. Also, there are no drawing hands that missed, and an A would just call. So his range is either a flush or a pocket pair turned into a bluff. If he doesn't turn his pairs into bluffs all the time, there are probably more flushes in his range.

I think I agree with your other comments...except maybe that I don't see why hero can't be pure bluffing hand 5. Is he much less likely to 2nd barrel the turn with AK or AQ than with weak pair, weak kicker?

Last edited by Fredrik; Dec 01, 2010 at 9:35pm.
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Old Dec 01, 2010, 9:32pm   #12
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These are the results (from memory):

Hand 1. Villain calls the turn bet. Hero check/folds the river.
Hand 2. Villain folds to the river raise.
Hand 3. Villain thinks for a while and folds to the river bet. Hero says he thinks the villain folded a king.
Hand 4. Villain folds to the turn bet.
Hand 5. Villain calls the third barrel with KJo.
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Old Dec 02, 2010, 6:57am   #13
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Quote:
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Hand 5. Villain calls the third barrel with KJo.
villain requested time, but still called. Hero said he's happy with his line.
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Old Dec 02, 2010, 7:37am   #14
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Why would he check back a Flushdraw on that Turn? I think that's pretty bad! The 4card straight doensn't really matter since we have so few deuces in our Range.
We are certainly not checking bach sets are we?
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Why would you fold any pre-flop hand. There is always a chance that you might get a gutshot. So why would you fold?
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Old Dec 02, 2010, 9:16am   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loder89 View Post
Why would he check back a Flushdraw on that Turn? I think that's pretty bad! The 4card straight doensn't really matter since we have so few deuces in our Range.
We are certainly not checking bach sets are we?
A reminder for everyone else... This is the hand we're talking about:
Hand 2: BTN vs. CO. Cutoff raises. Call with 99 (one of them a h). Call again (5h 3h 4d). Check-behind (A). Raise to 500 when villain bets 130 into 172 on the river (Qh, three h on the board).
I don't know. Maybe we should bet the turn and the river with our entire range there. I'd be interested in a continued discussion about this. The situation is kind of weird. I think we have to bluff the river if we semibluff the turn with a flush draw, but if the bet-bet line is more than just very marginally profitable, that would mean that we can't get two streets of value with our sets. And if we bet both streets with our entire range, wouldn't the villain be correct to C/C the turn and C/R a non-h river with a 2?

This brings me back to what I said earlier about how we need to have a plan for future streets when we call the flop. If we can't find a profitable plan, we're better of folding the flop.

Also, what do we do if the villain bets this turn?

Last edited by Fredrik; Dec 02, 2010 at 9:22am.
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Old Dec 02, 2010, 9:21am   #16
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That's what I am talking about. If we only bet sets he can c/f the turn! with his entire Range... I simply don't like checking back hands with no Showdown Value when his Range is <TP. I'd c/b mid pairs a lot and polarize my Range with a Bet.
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Why would you fold any pre-flop hand. There is always a chance that you might get a gutshot. So why would you fold?
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