THE FORUMS


German ForumsGeneral DiscussionStrategyFrench Forum
Old Dec 05, 2010, 11:32pm   #11
joeyjoejoejr
Professional
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,171
Reputation: 1441
joeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud of
Default

I read snaggle's post about 5 times and I still have no idea what its trying to say. Obviously we should bluff raise the river sometimes and yes its tough to float the river.

I agree with Fredrick on a flop lead basically being a bluff with two outs.

Whether to check call are ck fold the flop is tough and its easy to construct arguments for either one.

For a flop ck fold - same as OP is saying. We only have 2 outs when behind and even though we easily could be ahead of villians range it is easy for him to barrel away since we almost never that strong.

For a flop call- If were folding 88 here we are folding nearly everything. Villian is able to show a huge profit just cbetting 100%. In order to ensure that Villian doesnt show an immediate profit just by betting either we or the third player must to something to defend around 70% of the time.
I think we could easily show that 88 is in the top 35% of your range here.

In practice I think I ck fold because of the sizing $9 into $10 three way is usually stronger coming from an unknown than if he had bet $6.

I would ck call if he bet $6 knowing that I will be put to tough decisions later
joeyjoejoejr est déconnecté   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Don't like this ad? Register to make it go away!

Old Dec 06, 2010, 6:27am   #12
jimmytrick
Professional
 
jimmytrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,248
Reputation: 395
jimmytrick is just really nicejimmytrick is just really nicejimmytrick is just really nicejimmytrick is just really nice
Default

I seldom understand what the hell it is you guys are talking about.

In this case I am having a hard time deciding that its going to be more profitable to risk 79bbs more behind the 3 we originally invested, rather than one of the other options.

Thats if we invested $3 in a mine to fold if we don't hit a set. Obv. I can see the profitability of playing aggressively when we don't and the need to play more than fit or fold, but this seems a high variance way to go about it.

Part of the value of the hand is in showdown value, surely he is bluffing a missed draw or missed overcards here often enough to warrant an occasional call. Doesn't he check behind with showdown value, that he doesn't would indicate a bluff or a big hand that will snap us off too often?

Why is it better to make a huge bluff on the river with no outs than a modest one on the flop with two outs.

I feel that since I played this level online before switching to mostly live play, that I have enough experience with it to comment about a hand here, even though I know you guys play higher and are obv much better than I.
__________________

jimmytrick est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 06, 2010, 6:39am   #13
jimmytrick
Professional
 
jimmytrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,248
Reputation: 395
jimmytrick is just really nicejimmytrick is just really nicejimmytrick is just really nicejimmytrick is just really nice
Default

What is your action if the flush comes?
__________________

jimmytrick est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 06, 2010, 7:08pm   #14
podbelski
Doyle Look-alike
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 293
Reputation: 402
podbelski is just really nicepodbelski is just really nicepodbelski is just really nicepodbelski is just really nicepodbelski is just really nice
Default

I agree leading the flop is basically bluffing. Just because it sucks to check-fold, or check-call/check-fold I thought maybe it's better to lead hoping to take the pot down...
If the OR has nothing he will fold i.e. won't cbet-barrel us off the best hand. The BTN is more likely to make a play but he could definitely give us credit for leading into two people and decide not to mess around... If it's simply horrible I'll accept it
podbelski est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 06, 2010, 9:26pm   #15
joeyjoejoejr
Professional
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,171
Reputation: 1441
joeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by podbelski View Post
I agree leading the flop is basically bluffing. Just because it sucks to check-fold, or check-call/check-fold I thought maybe it's better to lead hoping to take the pot down...
If the OR has nothing he will fold i.e. won't cbet-barrel us off the best hand. The BTN is more likely to make a play but he could definitely give us credit for leading into two people and decide not to mess around... If it's simply horrible I'll accept it
If you want to bluff lead I think its probably better to do it with something like J10 or QJ etc....

I rarely lead so I dont know maybe you can argue that 88 isnt that bad to lead as part of balanced range. It may even have better equity when called then J10 (some 6s, smaller pairs and draws/floats may call) but it will be guessing on the turn everytime and its not really a good hand to double barrel. I think with a J10 there are enough decent turn cards to continue to fire thats its a better choice to lead with.

But I suck
joeyjoejoejr est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 07, 2010, 1:31am   #16
podbelski
Doyle Look-alike
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 293
Reputation: 402
podbelski is just really nicepodbelski is just really nicepodbelski is just really nicepodbelski is just really nicepodbelski is just really nice
Default

ok thank you that makes sense

wanted to add smth but forgotten what exactly... BTW going for a vacation, so bye everybody for a week or so...
podbelski est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 07, 2010, 7:25pm   #17
123money321
Doyle Look-alike
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Whitby, Ontario
Posts: 448
Reputation: 113
123money321 will become famous soon enough123money321 will become famous soon enough
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

The raise came way to late in that hand. The only thing I like is the preflop and flop check.

With no info I check/raise that flop.
__________________
Live Poker Player and NHL fan
123money321 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 08, 2011, 2:18pm   #18
BubbleBoy
BubbleBoy
 
BubbleBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: BubbleBoy
Posts: 11,484
Reputation: 28914
BubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond repute
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

whole hand seems well played / standard to me

you're c/calling a turn bet on most cards that dont complete the flush

might make a super thin vbet on the river but prob not. once he bets raising is cool and probably better than calling.
__________________

BubbleBoy est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 6:24am. vBulletin 3.7.4 Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.