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Old Jun 26, 2011, 3:40pm   #11
acehole_76
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every $ that goes in this pot 4 way is +ev for our hero. what about a small raise to about ~$100.
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obviously, it's always my fault whenever anyone does anything stupid around here.

fucking morons every one of you. there isn't a man in this village that i wouldn't feed into an incinerator for no reason other than to get rid of them.

Kc
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Old Jun 26, 2011, 9:51pm   #12
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every $ that goes in this pot 4 way is +ev for our hero. what about a small raise to about ~$100.
is better than jamming for sure, but instinctively i prefer letting the guys between me and the bettor in cheap, i also like the implied odds value of keeping my hand disguised, and the reverse implied odds (sort of) value of being able to dump this cheap the ~17% of the time the board pairs.

i don't need to be face up on the flop...however, if you're in a game where players are happy to run it twice or negotiate a chop, obviously being all in plays a bit differently.

incidentally if you are in a game where guys routinely agree to run it twice, i advocate insisting on always running it once. this would make a good thread, if i could be fucked to start it.

Kc
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Old Jun 26, 2011, 11:19pm   #13
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is better than jamming for sure, but instinctively i prefer letting the guys between me and the bettor in cheap, i also like the implied odds value of keeping my hand disguised, and the reverse implied odds (sort of) value of being able to dump this cheap the ~17% of the time the board pairs.
Kc

let them in cheap? they are already in, hero is last to act here. i like the bet to $100 as there is a chance he could get 4 callers and if there turn is a blank there is a chance hero could get a free card.
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obviously, it's always my fault whenever anyone does anything stupid around here.

fucking morons every one of you. there isn't a man in this village that i wouldn't feed into an incinerator for no reason other than to get rid of them.

Kc

Last edited by acehole_76; Jun 26, 2011 at 11:22pm.
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Old Jun 26, 2011, 11:21pm   #14
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incidentally if you are in a game where guys routinely agree to run it twice, i advocate insisting on always running it once. this would make a good thread, if i could be fucked to start it.

Kc

i agree with this if there is no buy in restrictions or if there is I am my stake is close to said restriction.
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Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
obviously, it's always my fault whenever anyone does anything stupid around here.

fucking morons every one of you. there isn't a man in this village that i wouldn't feed into an incinerator for no reason other than to get rid of them.

Kc
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Old Jun 26, 2011, 11:23pm   #15
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i don't need to be face up on the flop...however, if you're in a game where players are happy to run it twice or negotiate a chop, obviously being all in plays a bit differently.
Kc

why?
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Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
obviously, it's always my fault whenever anyone does anything stupid around here.

fucking morons every one of you. there isn't a man in this village that i wouldn't feed into an incinerator for no reason other than to get rid of them.

Kc
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 12:42am   #16
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incidentally if you are in a game where guys routinely agree to run it twice, i advocate insisting on always running it once. this would make a good thread, if i could be fucked to start it.

Kc
Okay, ill bite

The advantage would be if you think the others scared money or if you think making them rebuy will tilt them but what is wrong with lowering varience in general....

In home games I play I usually let them run it twice basically because I don't care either way in and being a nice guy helps gets me invited again.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 1:16am   #17
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Okay, ill bite
this is gonna be fun

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The advantage would be if you think the others scared money or if you think making them rebuy will tilt them but what is wrong with lowering varience in general....

In home games I play I usually let them run it twice basically because I don't care either way in and being a nice guy helps gets me invited again.
okay if we're playing with chumps then you do whatever they want to do, i'm talking about "real" games. also worth noting that a culture of running it twice encourages action, but you don't really have the ability to instill this culture in the same way you can straddle or buy everyone drinks.

so, in addition to the value of making people rebuy, and the possibility that all your opponent's money for the night is in front of him, you establish a don't fuck with me image. you want to play for stacks? you're playing for your stack. not half your stack twice, the whole bag. this discourages people from shoving on you with their draws and giving you a hard decision with your strong but not monster hands. say the draw has 1/3 equity, if he has to play one board he's felted 2/3 of the time. if he gets to play 2 boards then he's only felted 4/9 of the time, true he only scoops 1/9 of the time, and 4/9 of the time we chop it up but that's the showdown value. running it twice moves the balance of value towards fold equity when you're playing a draw, and all that shit i said a couple of sentences ago that should really have appeared here in the conclusion.

refusing to run it twice also makes it more intimidating when you move, which is nice.

Kc
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 1:34am   #18
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refusing to run it twice also makes it more intimidating when you move, which is nice.

Kc

except when it isnt........

you do have a habit of saying oopinion as fact (like i should talk). knowing someone will only only run it once will not chnage my play at all.


running it twice is ev neutral and if you are in a "serious" game as you say they should know that.
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Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
obviously, it's always my fault whenever anyone does anything stupid around here.

fucking morons every one of you. there isn't a man in this village that i wouldn't feed into an incinerator for no reason other than to get rid of them.

Kc
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 1:56am   #19
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hero is last to act here.
no he isn't.

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except when it isnt........
it never makes it less intimidating, sometimes it is more intimidating, sometimes it is equally as intimidating. therefore, overall, on average, it is more intimidating.

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you do have a habit of saying oopinion as fact (like i should talk). knowing someone will only only run it once will not chnage my play at all.
then you are making a fundamental mistake

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running it twice is ev neutral and if you are in a "serious" game as you say they should know that.
i think you've kinda missed the point here.

Kc
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 3:37am   #20
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I agree with you but you of course there are positives to running it twice as well...

What acehole was starting on... ie you have 3 times the max buy in and you are fliping for your whole stack.

There are other villians with similar stacks that you believe you have a large edge against. Clearly keeping your stack intact is important and should run it twice or more if possible.

Live games have pratical limits for the amount of buy ins you can bring. Yes I am not stupid enough to bring only a few buys but I dont want to bring 15 either. Running it twice makes more unlikely I have to leave because I am limited by the amount I brought.

Hero himself is not immune from tilt. Running it twice to lower variance and avoid a huge beat is good for hero's mental health.
Yes you can argue that hero should have better control in the long run and should force the point but often live fish villian will leave after his one buy anyhow making his mental state irrelevant.
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