THE FORUMS


German ForumsGeneral DiscussionStrategyFrench Forum

Go Back   PokerTips.org Forums > Strategy > Omaha Ring Games

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Jun 27, 2011, 1:50pm   #21
acehole_76
I found Kc...............
 
acehole_76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: now bring back northview
Posts: 7,632
Reputation: 2310
acehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

after a nights sleep

@ Kc if these 3 conditions are true:

1. there is no buy in resrtictions

2. I am playing with in my bankroll

3. I have long history with the villian (this assumes I know he knows etc...)


then playing against a barry who only runs it once will have no impact on our heads up hands.

now if someone only runs it once and has made it clear this is the case i think you should push your draws agaisnt him more then you normally would until you get to #3.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
obviously, it's always my fault whenever anyone does anything stupid around here.

fucking morons every one of you. there isn't a man in this village that i wouldn't feed into an incinerator for no reason other than to get rid of them.

Kc
acehole_76 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Don't like this ad? Register to make it go away!

Old Jun 27, 2011, 3:05pm   #22
killcrazy
Apex Predator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posts: 10,307
Reputation: 8118
killcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond repute
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile! This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyjoejoejr View Post
I agree with you but you of course there are positives to running it twice as well...

What acehole was starting on... ie you have 3 times the max buy in and you are fliping for your whole stack.

There are other villians with similar stacks that you believe you have a large edge against. Clearly keeping your stack intact is important and should run it twice or more if possible.
some math would be required at this point. i still lean towards running it once.

in every situation you give me, we're going to be talking about this hand value vs long term value. running it twice is often going to be merited if this is the only hand we're going to play, but we're going to play millions of hands after this one.

Quote:
Live games have pratical limits for the amount of buy ins you can bring. Yes I am not stupid enough to bring only a few buys but I dont want to bring 15 either. Running it twice makes more unlikely I have to leave because I am limited by the amount I brought.
cultivating friendships is +EV.

Quote:
Hero himself is not immune from tilt.
actually, i am.

i promised cory an article on how to become untiltable about a year ago. unfortunately, i am also extremely lazy.

Quote:
Running it twice to lower variance and avoid a huge beat is good for hero's mental health.
if you have emotional problems, granted, but you shouldn't be playing so high that this is an issue for you imo.

Kc
__________________
"Blah blah blah KC is right" - Ozone
killcrazy est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 27, 2011, 3:37pm   #23
acehole_76
I found Kc...............
 
acehole_76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: now bring back northview
Posts: 7,632
Reputation: 2310
acehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
some math would be required at this point. i still lean towards running it once.
Kc

there are many players that have hands that are nothing like the rest of their hands. I once told you about a giant hand played above my bankroll, that almost doubled my bankroll. if my opponent wasnt drawing dead I would have run it as many times as he would have let me.


lets say you are playing in a soft, buy in restricted game, where both you and your opponents are deep staked I think it is -ev to run it once. this seems to be even more true if this game isnt a regular one for you.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
obviously, it's always my fault whenever anyone does anything stupid around here.

fucking morons every one of you. there isn't a man in this village that i wouldn't feed into an incinerator for no reason other than to get rid of them.

Kc
acehole_76 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 27, 2011, 3:38pm   #24
acehole_76
I found Kc...............
 
acehole_76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: now bring back northview
Posts: 7,632
Reputation: 2310
acehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
actually, i am.
Kc

in poker yes, in the wolf game.......no
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
obviously, it's always my fault whenever anyone does anything stupid around here.

fucking morons every one of you. there isn't a man in this village that i wouldn't feed into an incinerator for no reason other than to get rid of them.

Kc
acehole_76 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 27, 2011, 4:32pm   #25
killcrazy
Apex Predator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posts: 10,307
Reputation: 8118
killcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond repute
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile! This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by acehole_76 View Post
I once told you about a giant hand played above my bankroll
i don't get myself into situations like this.

Quote:
lets say you are playing in a soft, buy in restricted game, where both you and your opponents are deep staked I think it is -ev to run it once. this seems to be even more true if this game isnt a regular one for you.
if i have a reputation for running it once, and that reputation has value (which it does), i am running it once to protect my reputation.

you aren't going to be able to pluck a single situation and give it to me and say "well what about this this and this" because i'm not talking situationally, i'm outlining a long term strategy.

if i'm playing in a game i'm never going to play in again, then none of this matters, but that isn't my premise, so the argument is invalid.

Kc
__________________
"Blah blah blah KC is right" - Ozone
killcrazy est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 27, 2011, 5:43pm   #26
acehole_76
I found Kc...............
 
acehole_76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: now bring back northview
Posts: 7,632
Reputation: 2310
acehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond reputeacehole_76 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
i don't get myself into situations like this.

the key is if you do get in these spots hit a set of 9's followed by quad 9's.

if i have a reputation for running it once, and that reputation has value (which it does), i am running it once to protect my reputation.

Kc

interesting how do we find out if your edge in always running it twice is worth it vs risking a big stack in a buy in restricted game. big stack vs weak opponents mean big mistakes, the more often you can be in this situation the more massive + plus (notice 2 pluses) ev spots you will have.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
obviously, it's always my fault whenever anyone does anything stupid around here.

fucking morons every one of you. there isn't a man in this village that i wouldn't feed into an incinerator for no reason other than to get rid of them.

Kc
acehole_76 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 27, 2011, 10:21pm   #27
joeyjoejoejr
Professional
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,171
Reputation: 1441
joeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud of
Default

It shouldnt be that hard to prove that any situation where you have a deep stack and are limited on the rebuy amount and have a edge against other deep stack villians that running more than once is +ev.

Maintaining your deep stack has real value in the game and it is of course ev neutral this specific hand to run it more than once.

If there are villians with even deeper stacks than you would want to run it once. Or if you have only one buy in play you should always want it once to increase the chance you get to profitable deep stack situations.

Anyways casinos in canada do not alllow running more than once ever. And in random underground games I just go with the flow....
joeyjoejoejr est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 27, 2011, 10:25pm   #28
joeyjoejoejr
Professional
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,171
Reputation: 1441
joeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud ofjoeyjoejoejr has much to be proud of
Default

Another reason for running it twice is that some villains actually think it changes the EV of the specific hand. So running it twice might encourge them to gamble more with you in spots that is -ev for them where they otherwise fold.
joeyjoejoejr est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 28, 2011, 3:28am   #29
darryl
Still can't quit day job.
 
darryl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: chicago area
Posts: 1,232
Reputation: 1220
darryl has much to be proud ofdarryl has much to be proud ofdarryl has much to be proud ofdarryl has much to be proud ofdarryl has much to be proud ofdarryl has much to be proud ofdarryl has much to be proud ofdarryl has much to be proud ofdarryl has much to be proud of
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile! This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

Wow, we've got our selves a poker discussion for once.
A couple of points. FWIW the place I was at only runs once. I prefer going to this home game that has much looser rules and players. I am definitely prone to tilting and that hand I was tilting. In fact, it wasn't until after I pushed that I realized how good my hand was. I would have run more than once, but I'm a casual player who has come to terms with being marginally profitable and will stop playing once it isn't fun. I'd rather decrease variance even if my over all EV drops slightly. Honestly though I'm not a whole lot better than the other players as a whole. Other stacks were bigger than me and the villain. I think $500 was max buy in.

-d
__________________
__________________
AFPP Supporter
Supporting a friendlier pokertips.org since 2008
darryl est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 28, 2011, 4:49am   #30
killcrazy
Apex Predator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posts: 10,307
Reputation: 8118
killcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond repute
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile! This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by darryl View Post
Wow, we've got our selves a poker discussion for once.
actually i think we seem to have two

Quote:
A couple of points. FWIW the place I was at only runs once.
I don't understand why casinos have rules like this. players should be allowed to do business in cash games. tournaments are a different other thing.

Quote:
I am definitely prone to tilting and that hand I was tilting.
well, maybe we should have a thread about tilt. i might actually get round to writing about it if there is rep points at stake instead of another of those gay ass exclamation marks that mechafaggot ozone keeps giving me.

Quote:
In fact, it wasn't until after I pushed that I realized how good my hand was. I would have run more than once, but I'm a casual player who has come to terms with being marginally profitable and will stop playing once it isn't fun. I'd rather decrease variance even if my over all EV drops slightly.
this is a curious mindset imo. professionals need to spare a thought for their variance/ev balance, because their risk of ruin genuinely is a risk of ruin. with recreational players though...i guess you can break people into two catagories in this regard, risk oriented and reward oriented. the risk oriented will look to minimise risk, their interest is usually playing correctly, getting it right, and one might ask if a game like poker is necessarilly the game they would find most fulfilling. the reward oriented have some gamble in them and will roll with max ev, max variance tachycardia. some will win some will lose, some were born to sing the blues, but the movie never ends it goes on and on and on and on, oh!

Quote:
Honestly though I'm not a whole lot better than the other players as a whole.
strangers, waiting. up and down the boulevard their shadows, searching in the ni-ee-ight.

Quote:
Other stacks were bigger than me and the villain.
streetlights, people, living just to find emotion. hiding, somewhere in the niiiiiiiiight!

Quote:
I think $500 was max buy in.
don't stop believin'. hold on to that fee-la-ee-aling.

Kc
__________________
"Blah blah blah KC is right" - Ozone
killcrazy est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 2:17am. vBulletin 3.7.4 Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.