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Old Aug 09, 2011, 12:42pm   #1
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Default 89tj how much will you put in pre?

I typically like to get my money in after the flop since I'm somewhat of a variance nit. Every now and then at the game I play 4 people will raise and raise and raise until everyone is all in preflop. One or two will typically have aces. The other two will have just about any 4 cards and were just hoping to take it home. These people will typically be from 200 - 500 bb's. There may be a short stack mixed in. How much would you be willing to risk with 89tj with at least one suit knowing there was a raise, a repot, your turn to act and you know the original raiser is going for broke?

-d
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Old Aug 09, 2011, 2:18pm   #2
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so it's 3bet before it gets to us, with the possibility the original raiser is going to bump it again.

in order to answer this i need a raise and 4betting range for the raiser and a 3betting range for the 3bettor?

a wrap with max straight possibilities (we must have a name for JT98 down to 7654? if not i'm going to call it a date wrap) and one suit is somewhere around 38-40% against all AAXX, the worst case scenario where he has two flushes including yours with JT you're about 25%. does that help?

Kc
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Old Aug 09, 2011, 5:31pm   #3
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I think it depends on table dynamics. If you know 3-bettor is only doing that with AAxx, I'd just flat call. If his range is a bit wider, I'm comfortable 4-betting and never folding with this hand. If you know the original raiser is, like you said, getting it in with whatever four pieces of paper he originally raised with, I'm definitely four-betting. Let's get it in and try to bink.
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Old Aug 09, 2011, 6:51pm   #4
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thing about wraps is, you're almost never in horrible shape, but you're never in particularly good shape either. OP is a small dog to a swiss cheese hand like AcJh8s5d.

your aim with this hand is not to be all in preflop, that should be the worst case scenario. you're normally going to be aggressive with this hand preflop because you have fold equity both there and on the flop. if that fold equity isn't there, you're basically gambling. surely taking flops and fucking bitches up when you hit is better?

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Old Aug 09, 2011, 7:25pm   #5
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surely taking flops and fucking bitches up when you hit is better?

Kc

yeah but in these live low limit plo games this is not an option it is put most of it in pre flop or fold.
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obviously, it's always my fault whenever anyone does anything stupid around here.

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Old Aug 09, 2011, 7:51pm   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
thing about wraps is, you're almost never in horrible shape, but you're never in particularly good shape either. OP is a small dog to a swiss cheese hand like AcJh8s5d.

your aim with this hand is not to be all in preflop, that should be the worst case scenario. you're normally going to be aggressive with this hand preflop because you have fold equity both there and on the flop. if that fold equity isn't there, you're basically gambling. surely taking flops and fucking bitches up when you hit is better?

Kc
You make good points, but are we really ever cold-folding this hand to a 3-bet? And are we really ever flatting the 3-bet only to fold when more piles get put in?
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Old Aug 09, 2011, 8:19pm   #7
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Lets play a game.

You get AA + 2 random, I get Js10s89.

We each must put one unit in preflop.
You must bet 2 units on the flop and I can choose to fold or call.
Afterwards we are all in.

Which side do you like.

(I guess a better question is exactly how many units must be behind post flop to make this game completely fair?)

Last edited by joeyjoejoejr; Aug 09, 2011 at 8:22pm.
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Old Aug 09, 2011, 9:13pm   #8
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I think I can solve that close to accurately when Im home, just posting as a reminder.
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Old Aug 10, 2011, 2:35pm   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozone View Post
You make good points, but are we really ever cold-folding this hand to a 3-bet? And are we really ever flatting the 3-bet only to fold when more piles get put in?
not folding it for a threebet, but nor am i going to encourage the action until i've seen the flop. also you do need to know how likely it is to get fourbet or morebet before you call the threebet.

Kc
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Old Aug 10, 2011, 7:46pm   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
not folding it for a threebet, but nor am i going to encourage the action until i've seen the flop. also you do need to know how likely it is to get fourbet or morebet before you call the threebet.

Kc
It's 95% likely you get fourbet and morebet (as per darryl's observation in OP that you "know original raiser is going for broke").
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