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Old Feb 13, 2012, 6:49pm   #11
darryl
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Thanks for the feed back. Replaying the hand I should have bet the flop and turn harder to set up for a river shove if the board was pretty dry.

I ended up checking the river, the villain (as I suspected) bet - in this case $100 and I called. He flipped over AQ. I wasn't expecting AQ - I figured he would have raised my flop bet.

-d
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 11:59pm   #12
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Originally Posted by darryl View Post
Thanks for the feed back. Replaying the hand I should have bet the flop and turn harder to set up for a river shove if the board was pretty dry.

I ended up checking the river, the villain (as I suspected) bet - in this case $100 and I called. He flipped over AQ. I wasn't expecting AQ - I figured he would have raised my flop bet.

-d
he might. on a board like that, i'm going to call a lot with tptk. let you bet at me again.

the real question is, once you've checked the river, should you put him on a queen when he makes that river bet and shove.

Kc
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Old Feb 14, 2012, 9:54am   #13
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the real question is, once you've checked the river, should you put him on a queen when he makes that river bet and shove.

Kc
hard to ballance

with checking sets otr you polarize your betting range

therefore its hard to come up with hand you barrel twice and x/raise the river with (you really cant check much air [I dont even think we have any air in our range]) since hes checking back Qx type hands to often

to sum this up.. checking the river at all is something we want to avoid
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Old Feb 18, 2012, 12:14am   #14
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Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
the real question is, once you've checked the river, should you put him on a queen when he makes that river bet and shove.

Kc
hard to ballance

with checking sets otr you polarize your betting range

therefore its hard to come up with hand you barrel twice and x/raise the river with (you really cant check much air [I dont even think we have any air in our range]) since hes checking back Qx type hands to often

to sum this up.. checking the river at all is something we want to avoid
what in the world. first off it doesnt matter if our strat is even close to reasonably balanced, as we should just exploit these live tards as hard as possible.

anyway. "we check sets, ok, so our betting range is polarized"?? what? how can it be polarized when we don't bet our strongest hands? If anything it can be weak, cause we don't have strong hands. or it can be bluff heavy, cause we bluff more often than we value bet AA/KK/2pr.

"therefore we can't bet-bet-x/jam". if we check sets, we can check jam those of course, assuming he doesn't have enough flushes. We can also check jam bluffs if we think he bet/folds sometimes with Qx. Why not? where is the connection anyway? And why can't we check air?

"avoid checking river" why? KQ surely checks. Jx surely checks if we barreled loosely.
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Old Feb 18, 2012, 12:59am   #15
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whos worrying about balancing in a 2-5 live game lol
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Old Feb 18, 2012, 2:18pm   #16
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the real question is, once you've checked the river, should you put him on a queen when he makes that river bet and shove.

Kc
hard to ballance

with checking sets otr you polarize your betting range

therefore its hard to come up with hand you barrel twice and x/raise the river with (you really cant check much air [I dont even think we have any air in our range]) since hes checking back Qx type hands to often

to sum this up.. checking the river at all is something we want to avoid
what in the world. first off it doesnt matter if our strat is even close to reasonably balanced, as we should just exploit these live tards as hard as possible.

anyway. "we check sets, ok, so our betting range is polarized"?? what? how can it be polarized when we don't bet our strongest hands? If anything it can be weak, cause we don't have strong hands. or it can be bluff heavy, cause we bluff more often than we value bet AA/KK/2pr.

"therefore we can't bet-bet-x/jam". if we check sets, we can check jam those of course, assuming he doesn't have enough flushes. We can also check jam bluffs if we think he bet/folds sometimes with Qx. Why not? where is the connection anyway? And why can't we check air?

"avoid checking river" why? KQ surely checks. Jx surely checks if we barreled loosely.
most (live) players dont even consider betting most of their Qx hands OTR.. therefore having a strong checking range is retarded

we simply miss value by checking.. so the correct term might me "it is weak to have a river checking range at all" .. I mean why would he betting Qx .. we bet into 5 people OTF flop we basically have no air or weaker beside Qx which checks ..
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Old Feb 19, 2012, 6:02am   #17
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def agree with that, and everyone has said it, jam river for value, as he will check back a lot of hands that might call.


Quote:
we bet into 5 people OTF flop we basically have no air or weaker beside Qx which checks ..
we also have no bad hand that bets a bluff by the same logic dont we?
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Old Feb 19, 2012, 9:50am   #18
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we also have no bad hand that bets a bluff by the same logic dont we?
sure

but its way easier for most people to call with a bluffcatcher than betting thin/ bluffing with a made hand
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Old Apr 28, 2012, 6:41pm   #19
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This was a live $2-5 game. I was under the gun, villain was late position.
I was at the table about 3 hours and this was my second pocket pair. I had been pretty card dead most of the session. Let's say for this hand we are both sitting on $600 each.

I'm dealt 33, I raise to $15. I could have raised more, but was set mining and just wanted to juice the pot. I get 5 callers for $75 in the pot.
Flop comes Q83 giving me a set of 3's.

I lead out for $45 folds to the villain who calls. For about $165 in the pot.
Turn is a rag to make a 2 flush board. I bet $100 villain calls. Now $365 in the pot or so and we both have $460 left or so behind.
Villain is pretty loose, loves to sense weakness and exploit.
River is J making a straight and a flush possible on the board (although if villain was drawing, it would be a gutshot or runner runner for the flush).

So my turn to act, do I 3 barrel, if so how much, if he raises, then what? Do I let him bet knowing he would probably sense weakness and probably throw out a river bet then I call a reasonable bet? My read on him was that he had more than a bluff, probably more than a pair. Am I just losing value by checking here, or is it a situation where I'm probably only getting called by a better hand? Does that make me nitty, etc.?

-d
i would check / call the river
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