THE FORUMS


German ForumsGeneral DiscussionStrategyFrench Forum
Old Aug 16, 2004, 9:28pm   #1
JayAut
Flop Artist
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 74
Reputation: 0
JayAut
Default A thought

Why is it only SUITED connectors that are supposedly worth playing?

It seems to me that the suited part is pretty moot. I mean if you're playing 78s and the flush comes up, there's a good likelyhood that someone will have a better flush than you. Really when I play suited connectors I'm hoping for the straight, and not the flush. Obviously the suited is better because of that tiny chance of a straight flush, but really, it seems like if you're going to play suited connectors, you might as well play unsuited ones as well.
JayAut est déconnecté   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Don't like this ad? Register to make it go away!

Old Aug 16, 2004, 9:42pm   #2
Notjitsu
Professional
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,092
Reputation: 120
Notjitsu will become famous soon enoughNotjitsu will become famous soon enough
Default

I'd say the odds are pretty long against someone else having a flush at the same time as you. I know it happens, but you figure 5 of that suit are out in the open, so that leaves only 8...2 of which have to be in someones hand.
And on top of that, those 2 cards have to be playable.
Notjitsu est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 18, 2004, 5:10am   #3
Peake
Fish
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ca
Posts: 8
Reputation: 0
Peake
Default

I was just thinking this the other day. The SUITED connectors idea is the one thing I keep reading in books, but is never explained. What are you gonna do when you hit a flush and some guy holding pocket kings comes out betting hard? I mean, you can never play this flush with confidence (especially in no-limit). If you hit the right end of the straight, you know you have a hand that's good. I guess there's a small mathematical advantage, but it seems you could lose a bundle if you play the flush. So what's the point? The possibikity of a St-flush? How many of those do you see? I find it hard to believe that this slight possibility makes suited connecters playable when unsuited is not. I'd love to hear others thoughts.
Peake est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 18, 2004, 4:29pm   #4
Kazz
Grinder
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 908
Reputation: 33
Kazz is on a distinguished road
Default

Of course once in a while someone will hit a higher flush than you when you have a low suited connector, but most of the time your flush will actually be good. It is hard to determine when you're ahead and when you're not sometimes (I've thrown away a low flush to one or more worse hands because of crazy betting or good bluffing with a 4 flush on the board for example), but if you can figure out what the other person probably has and it doesn't beat you, you can play it pretty hard.

There's always a chance of someone having a better flush, unless you have the top straight flush or an Ace high flush with no possible straight flush, but most of the time you won't find 2 or more flushes in one hand (although I've seen as many as 3 once).

As for the real question: Why is it better to play suited than unsuited connectors? Simply because you have more ways to win. You probably won't win with 1 pair unless the board is all low, so you have 2 pair, 3 of a kind, 4 of a kind, a straight and a full house you could make with 3 other cards, and most of those require hitting more than 1 of the 6 cards that would pair your hand. If your cards are suited, you can add flush and straight flush to that list, and that gives you a lot more cards to win with.

For example, say you have 78c against AdAh. The flop is 96c2h. If you want to, you can probably get your whole stack in against the Aces, and you're actually a favorite! (56.3%) If it was unsuited, 7c8d for example, you'd have a 37% chance on that same flop and while you might want to play, you probably wouldn't want to go all-in on the flop with that.

I don't think that unsuited connectors are completely worthless though, and in some situations I think they're playable once in a while, but I play them suited much more often because I have a better chance of winning with them.

I know a lot of it seems simple and I may not be telling you anything you didn't know, but I hope it helps someone anyway.
Kazz est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 18, 2004, 5:07pm   #5
aseyer
Grinder
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 898
Reputation: 8
aseyer is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to aseyer
Default

The guy who wrote pokerstove gave a great analysis of playing unsuited connectors. It can be found here:

http://www.pokerstove.com/unsuited.txt
__________________
IFSATG.
aseyer est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 18, 2004, 6:50pm   #6
wannabe
River Rat
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 12
Reputation: 0
wannabe
Default

Here's a couple of examples of how medium suited connectors or semi-connected can work out.

I played 89c in late position, 10/20 blinds, 9 people at the table, 4 people limp in ahead of me so I call. Board comes up 2, 9, 8 rainbow. 2 people fold, 2 limp, I go all in, one guy folds, chip leader says, "what the F is he playing?" and calls, shows AK with no potential for the flush, turn is a king, river is a blank.

Next example, on the button, don't remember the blinds but it was cheap, I play 46d (semi-connected). 3 people limp ahead of me so I call, one limper behind me. Board comes up 6c, 3d, 5d two limpers ahead of me I go all in. One folds, the other calls, shows KQ with no potential for the flush, turn is a 9, river is Qd, I hit my flush! Not sure I'm right but I calculated my outs and figured 60 to 65% chance I'd catch a card!?

I think the whole point is to get in cheap and catch a flop, if you miss your flop, FOLD...
wannabe est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 19, 2004, 5:27pm   #7
Bling_Ping
Doyle Look-alike
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Pokertips.org
Posts: 349
Reputation: 0
Bling_Ping
Default

DUDE where are you playing poker at and how do i sign up?


Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe
Here's a couple of examples of how medium suited connectors or semi-connected can work out.

I played 89c in late position, 10/20 blinds, 9 people at the table, 4 people limp in ahead of me so I call. Board comes up 2, 9, 8 rainbow. 2 people fold, 2 limp, I go all in, one guy folds, chip leader says, "what the F is he playing?" and calls, shows AK with no potential for the flush, turn is a king, river is a blank.

Next example, on the button, don't remember the blinds but it was cheap, I play 46d (semi-connected). 3 people limp ahead of me so I call, one limper behind me. Board comes up 6c, 3d, 5d two limpers ahead of me I go all in. One folds, the other calls, shows KQ with no potential for the flush, turn is a 9, river is Qd, I hit my flush! Not sure I'm right but I calculated my outs and figured 60 to 65% chance I'd catch a card!?

I think the whole point is to get in cheap and catch a flop, if you miss your flop, FOLD...
Bling_Ping est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 19, 2004, 7:20pm   #8
wannabe
River Rat
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 12
Reputation: 0
wannabe
Default

I have to be honest with you, I'm a little confused about what I know and what I don't know!? I'm playing all cash games. Buy-in is $10 or $20 dollars. For different reasons we start with different chip counts. Sometimes you get $250 in chips, sometimes $500 in chips. 9 to 11 players. Blinds escolate quickly to try and have the game end in 2 to 2.5 hours so we can get in 2 games in a evening.

I never played poker before. I've been playing for about a month. I played nine times and won 4 times. My buy-in to date is $130, have won $410, my net is +$280.

Some of the guys I'm playing with have been playing for 3 or 4 years. Are they fish? Am I getting lucky?

When I'm not getting any cards I fish for whatever I can. When I get these low suited connectors I play them for eveything I can get out of 'em. When you hit one of these hands, you look like a F'ing genious and your table image goes way up! When I'm getting cards I play aggressively, that combined with finesse on these little connectors makes you look like a threat no matter what kind of cards you get!??

I have lots to think about and to try and understand?????
wannabe est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 03, 2004, 10:45pm   #9
vegasholdem
Brunson
 
vegasholdem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: las vegas, nevada
Posts: 124
Reputation: 0
vegasholdem
Default suited flush

It's actually rare to see someone having a flush while you do:
so when you do make you flush....i think you should follow thru becuz in the long run....you'll most likely show a profit...


so i think follow thru is important when you hit your backdoor flush...

for instance:
it's 2.4 to 1 against someone sharing a flush with you.
it's 6 to 1 against someone holding a Jack High flush when u do.
vegasholdem est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 16, 2005, 4:37pm   #10
The boat man
Brunson
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 114
Reputation: 0
The boat man
Send a message via MSN to The boat man
Default

I am relatively new to poker although I have spent alot of time learning the theory and practicing with play money , now that I have found confidence and moved into the real money .5 / 1 dollar no-limit with a bank roll to cover 100xBB .
I have been pleased with my performance so far though 1 bad beat knocked me off my feet , I had to take a break and recover for an hour or so , it wasn't the financial blow but the pscycological . I went into a hand with 3d5d in the pocket , not a great hand but everyone limped in with 2 players to call after me , they checked , free flop . 6d 2d 7c was the flop . immediately I have a gut straight flush draw / gut straight draw / ordinary flush draw , checks round to me I decide to build the pot and guage the other players hands , 4 players call my raise ( 2 dollars ) I figure I am still in with a shot , I had calculated 13 outs so with a 48% chance ( I hope I am right ) of making one of these hands I decide on another 2 dollar raise , only 1 player stays in , the turn is 9d I've made my flush and have another gut draw at a straight ( not that its beating the flush I have ) but i felt so confident in my hand / calculations , called my raise , Jd on the turn . figuring that trips were beat if he had pocket jacks and dismissing the possibilty that he had a higher flush I put in a 5 dollar bet if he was wanting a steal seeing a free or cheap river , he calls , river Qd , I know now I am beat if he has a higher Diamond with 4 already on the board . I hesitantly checked while cursing the river , I was so confident before then , he goes all in 7 dollars and I think my emotions got the better of me without calculating I called hoping for him bluffing , the showdown was Ad Jh , I couldn't belive he had stayed to the river hoping for a diamond or trips ?
This is one time where suited conectors really beat me . Any advice on how i should have played the hand , maybe I should have laid down on the river I guess , chasing the pot cost me 7xBB .

Great forum by the way , i have read and learned so much here .
__________________
Good luck is when opportunity meets good preparation .
The boat man est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 3:42am. vBulletin 3.7.4 Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.