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Old Aug 22, 2004, 3:34pm   #1
whalemangler
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Default Hand from garage tourney

Played in a 3 x 8 table $55(35 for rebuy) tourney this weekend and the it had just gone down to 2 tables. My friend drew the seat to my right and motioned to her right and said that the chip leader had gotten some fantastic cards early but had since been bullying everyone around and stealing every pot.

Anyway the first hand I was in the big blind for 50 and I had 1850 in chips which was just under average. My friend was in the small blind and only had about 290 in chips left.

The first hand folded all the way around to the agessive chipleader 1 off the button who made it 300 to go. Button folds, my friend shrugs and calls all in. I then look down to see AhKh.

Pop quiz - what do you do? Tourney pays 3 spots and is top heavy for 1st.

Results to follow.
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Old Aug 22, 2004, 4:34pm   #2
aseyer
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All in or fold. Calling is not an option as AK needs to see all 5 cards for maximum value.

There are arguements for both.

A) By pushing in you are sending a clear message that your blinds are not to be bullied and that you do defend.

B) If you push in, you have pushed the decision back to him - always a good thing.

C) You are really only in trouble against AA or KK, and are a very slight dog otherwise.

D) You have over 30X the BB - you aren't under any pressue. You don't have a hand yet - just the potential for one.

E) You could get out lucked. Even though he may have a marginal hand like AQ or AJ (in which case you are a HUGE Favorite) he could out draw you.

Personally, I would push in.
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Old Aug 22, 2004, 5:08pm   #3
Jack Smash
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Default Push'em!

Push'em in. This was round 2? If this guy has been stealing pots and chip-bullying, go ahead and give him a tough decision. He has to start playing a little and maybe suddenly he starts worrying about finihsing in the money.
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Old Aug 22, 2004, 5:21pm   #4
wannabe
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Quote:
Calling is not an option as AK
If you call, you can still see all five cards.

The flop is more important then what your opponent holds, at the momment. If I hit the flop, I'm first to act. In this situation, the read, after my bet is the most critical part of this hand!
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Old Aug 22, 2004, 6:31pm   #5
whalemangler
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This was actually round 3 (5-10, 10-20, 25-50) and 50-100 was coming up very soon.

One thing of note that I did not mention was that he had a massive amount of chips. Buyin was 700, most had rebought at this point and he had at least 5000 probably 6000.

Anyway, I pushed them all in and he called immediately with KJo. My friend had 33 and actually only had 250 I think. So there was a 750 side pot and a 3100+ main pot. Flop was Ten high. Turn was a king and the river was a jack.

Incedentally aces would have been 86% vs KJo and AKs was 75%. Aces would have lost as well however so I can't really fault my play. You have to get into situations like this at some point for all your chips in most cases. This is about the same as than flopping a set, going all in and getting called by a flush draw.

Raising to 900 would have probably been met by an all in by the leader. The only way to win this hand I think was to call and bluff all my chips at the ten hi flop.

He went on to win the whole thing.
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Old Aug 22, 2004, 7:06pm   #6
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So you acted too soon

You could have given yourself more opportunities to act later in the hand, if you had been patient
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Old Aug 22, 2004, 7:35pm   #7
whalemangler
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No I feel the play was correct. Knowing what I know now I would do I again every time if the you shuffled the remaining cards.

Calling then bluffing at the dry pot is very dangerous and may accomplish nothing since the all in player cannot be bluffed. I would have won the 100 side pot and then drew out on the 750. Had i waited till the turn he would have called again with the same result.
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Old Aug 22, 2004, 8:10pm   #8
wannabe
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Or you could fold after the flop.
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Old Aug 22, 2004, 8:26pm   #9
whalemangler
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True.

I figured I was going to need to take some risk to get back in it. I actually thought the chip leader would fold two random face cards. He would have had around 4000 chips after that and I would have been right behind him with an opportunity to run the table.

He ran over the table after I went out, I was going to have to take a stand like that at some point.

Oh well. I just felt a call with those cards was wrong, a normal raise would have put half my chips in the pot and basically pot commited me so I did the only thing left.
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Old Aug 23, 2004, 12:09am   #10
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Before anymore is said on this I want a point made - he was outdrew, not out played. His read was right and he was in a dominating position against the chip leader, A vs J. The guy caught one of his 3 outs - that's poker.

I still hold it was the right move. If he had just called (worst option ever for AK against a loose agressive), he was going to get bluffed out of the best hand.
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