THE FORUMS


German ForumsGeneral DiscussionStrategyFrench Forum
Old Jan 15, 2005, 10:29pm   #1
AJDMB05
Brunson
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 115
Reputation: 0
AJDMB05
Default I don't know what else to do...

Today was just two bad incidents in a long line of my hand not holding up when I'm a huge favorite to win, but I don't know what else I can possibly do, so I came here for help.

Final 4 of a sit and go (.50 + .10) on Absolute Poker:

Stage #67246303: Holdem Single Tournament No Limit $20 [2005-01-15 17:54:25]
Seat 3 - ANGELISA22 $4060 in chips
Seat 4 - AJDMB41 $1570 in chips
Seat 5 - MIKEY13 $2545 in chips
Seat 9 - CRAZYHO $5325 in chips
*** BLIND [dealer 5] ***
CRAZYHO - Post small blind $20
ANGELISA22 - Post big blind $40
AJDMB41 - Pocket [As,10c] <-- short stack, I'll see it.
AJDMB41 - Calls $40
MIKEY13 - Folds
CRAZYHO - Raises $20 to $80
ANGELISA22 - Calls $40
AJDMB41 - Calls $40 <-- fine, minimum raise.
*** FLOP [9h,10h,Qc] ***
CRAZYHO - Bets $40
ANGELISA22 - Calls $40
AJDMB41 - Calls $40 <-- not too confident with middle pair, but minimum bet again
*** TURN [9h,10h,Qc,10d] ***
CRAZYHO - Bets $520 <-- seemingly good being that only 5 hands beat me now and I know he wouldn't raise with the J-8 and he wouldn't minimum raise/bet with QQ, or the nut straight. 10-Q or 10-9 nagged in my mind...
ANGELISA22 - Folds
AJDMB41 - All-In(Raise) $520 to $1450
CRAZYHO - Calls $930
*** RIVER [9h,10h,Qc,10d,Ks] ***
AJDMB41 - Calls
CRAZYHO - Calls
*** RESULT ***
Total Pot($3260:$3260,$0)
Board [9h,10h,Qc,10d,Ks]
ANGELISA22 - Folded on the TURN
AJDMB41 - HIree of a kind, tens [As,10c - B:10h,B:10d,P:10c,P,B]
MIKEY13 - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
CRAZYHO - Total ($3260) HI$3260)Straight, nine to king [Jd,Jh - B,B,P,B:10h,B

I mean... I know there's nothing I can do about him drawing to a 10-outer, I was only 3.5 to 1 to win, but still.

Now a 13-to-1 beat which isn't my worst, I've lost 32-to-1 beats before, but it's just another example:

Stage #67189675: Holdem Multi Normal Tournament Pot Limit $100 [2005-01-15 15:03:39]
Seat 1 - SFAMILER $2550 in chips
Seat 2 - STLGAL $5610 in chips
Seat 3 - EAGLES2315 $280 in chips
Seat 4 - WOK45 $8390 in chips
Seat 5 - AJDMB41 $6340 in chips
Seat 7 - THADARKMAN $500 in chips
Seat 8 - RYANELL $2490 in chips
Seat 9 - KLAUSKOLLO $9490 in chips
*** BLIND [dealer 4] ***
AJDMB41 - Post small blind $100
THADARKMAN - Post big blind $200
AJDMB41 - Pocket [Ks,Kd]
RYANELL - Folds
KLAUSKOLLO - Calls $200
SFAMILER - Folds
STLGAL - Folds
EAGLES2315 - Folds(Blind disconnect)
WOK45 - Folds(Blind disconnect)
AJDMB41 - Raises $100 to $400 <-- just to test
THADARKMAN - Folds(Blind disconnect)
KLAUSKOLLO - Raises $200 to $1400
AJDMB41 - Raises $1000 to $4400
KLAUSKOLLO - Raises $3000 to $8800 <-- this whole exchange I was just going to take the risk that he didn't have A-A, and that I was up against A-K or Q-Q
AJDMB41 - All-In $1940
KLAUSKOLLO - returned ($2460) : not called
*** FLOP [7c,6s,10d] ***
*** TURN [7c,6s,10d,7h] ***
*** RIVER [7c,6s,10d,7h,Ad] ***
AJDMB41 - Calls
KLAUSKOLLO - Calls
*** RESULT ***
Total Pot($12880:$12880,$0)
Board [7c,6s,10d,7h,Ad]
AJDMB41 - HI:Two pair, kings and sevens [Ks,Kd - P,P,B,B,B]
KLAUSKOLLO - Total ($12880) HI$12880)Two pair, aces and sevens [Ac,Qh - B,P,B,B,P]

I guess it's not the best example of "what did I do wrong because I got my money in with the best hand, and I was a 13-to-1 favorite by the river. It just seems like I never draw to a 3 outer but I always get outdrawn against a 3 outer.

And just as I was typing this, my third horrendous beat of the day in another .$.50 + $.10:

Stage #67252693: Holdem Single Tournament No Limit $10 [2005-01-15 18:14:09]
Seat 1 - RICHARDRAHL $1310 in chips
Seat 2 - FREAK2009 $1625 in chips
Seat 4 - TOMSON72 $1815 in chips
Seat 5 - KANE1472 $1570 in chips
Seat 6 - AJDMB41 $1655 in chips
Seat 7 - NORRBAGGEN $1460 in chips
Seat 8 - GO4ALL $4065 in chips
*** BLIND [dealer 4] ***
KANE1472 - Post small blind $10
AJDMB41 - Post big blind $20
AJDMB41 - Pocket [Ah,Qc]
NORRBAGGEN - Calls $20
GO4ALL - Raises $20 to $40
RICHARDRAHL - Folds
FREAK2009 - Calls $40
TOMSON72 - Folds
KANE1472 - Calls $30
AJDMB41 - Calls $20 <-- re-raising just provokes more re-raising in this situation and I wasn't going to make a decision for all my chips pre-flop with AQo
NORRBAGGEN - Calls $20
*** FLOP [Ac,10d,6c] *** <-- fine, but top pair has never stopped anyone before
KANE1472 - Checks
AJDMB41 - Bets $60 <-- let's see...
NORRBAGGEN - Folds
GO4ALL - All-In(Raise) $60 to $4025 <-- bingo. not on the club draw, and if it's A-A or 10-10 then it's just my luck, and 6-6, no chance.
FREAK2009 - Folds
KANE1472 - Folds
AJDMB41 - All-In $1555
GO4ALL - returned ($2410) : not called
GO4ALL - returned ($0) : not called
*** TURN [Ac,10d,6c,5c] ***
*** RIVER [Ac,10d,6c,5c,8h] ***
AJDMB41 - Calls
GO4ALL - Calls
*** RESULT ***
Total Pot($3430:$3430,$0)
Board [Ac,10d,6c,5c,8h]
RICHARDRAHL - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
FREAK2009 - Folded on the FLOP
TOMSON72 - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
KANE1472 - Folded on the FLOP
AJDMB41 - HI:One pair, aces [Ah,Qc - P,B,P,B:10d,B]
NORRBAGGEN - Folded on the FLOP
GO4ALL - Total ($3430) All-In HI$3430)Two pair, aces and fives [As,5d - P,B,P,B,B:10d]

So I get raised all in, and I'm up 8.5-to-1 before the turn card of death, and I get out drawn again to a 3-outer.

Should I be re-raising more with hands like the above to force out crap like that? I try not to push too hard pre-flop because I know if someone pushes back, hands like A-Q and A-10 are in trouble and I don't want to get caught.

I don't really know what I'm asking, this is just the product of extreme frusteration. I've been playing a while now and I never seem to be on the winning side of hands like this. I didn't even have time to be excited that I was a huge favorite AQ vs. A5. I know it's just a run of bad luck, but the bankroll is dwindling from these rotten beats by erronious calls from other people and I'm slowly going on bankroll tilt trying to win money back.
[/b]
__________________
"Well, if there wasn't luck involved, I guess I'd win every one..."
- Phil Hellmuth, '04 WSOP.
AJDMB05 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Don't like this ad? Register to make it go away!

Old Jan 16, 2005, 6:07pm   #2
imapuhnguin
Flop Artist
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 27
Reputation: 0
imapuhnguin
Default

That's what happens when you just limp in with high face cards, everyone else stays in with A, low x and catch two pair on you. I had an experience a couple weeks ago limping in with AA and nearly got beat. 3 hearts came on the flop and i didn't have the heart and someone raised all in. I didn't want to let it go and someone called the all in before me which made my decision even harder. I called and I went up against Qh, Kc and pocket 2's. 3, 5 and some other rag came on the flop, a black duece hit on the turn so i had a max of 5 outs to my knowledge if no one folded a card that i needed and fair enough i pulled a non heart 4 to make a straight.

Needless to say it was a miracle that pulled that out. But i should've pushed before the flop. More times than not if you raise 3/4 times the blinds no one will bite back at you and most likely just get a call
imapuhnguin est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16, 2005, 6:53pm   #3
AJDMB05
Brunson
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 115
Reputation: 0
AJDMB05
Default

well, on top of all that, I lost my last bit of money when my quad nines lost to quad aces. Board of A-9-9-A-Q. He drew to his remaining out, and then I just tossed away my last buy-in money by pushing in short stacked with AQ and going up against AK.

Needless to say this is not my weekend and I'd venture a guess that I took the worst/most bad beats that anyone could possibly take in the span of 48 hours. I've never experienced anything like this, there's been upswings and downswings but this is a downswing beyond normal probability. Losing at least three torunament-ending hands as a 95% favorite or more to win is just unbearable.

I'm an awful loser, but I honestly can't accurately describe how frusterated and pissed I am right now.
__________________
"Well, if there wasn't luck involved, I guess I'd win every one..."
- Phil Hellmuth, '04 WSOP.
AJDMB05 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2005, 4:18pm   #4
Yads
Doyle Look-alike
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 295
Reputation: 0
Yads
Default

Wahhh
Yads est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 18, 2005, 9:45am   #5
vitaltilt
Grinder
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 742
Reputation: 0
vitaltilt
Default

Aww man, this place is gonna get like 2+2 ...

Heh, only joking around. Yeah, bad beats are bound to happen. I think it is a bit funny that when we get lucky in a hand, we hardly think about the bad beat that just took place to the opponent.

I sometimes feel kinda bad when I get really lucky, 'cause I now think I'm due for a bad beat. In the end, things will even out and the solid player will always be ahead.
vitaltilt est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 18, 2005, 8:02pm   #6
AJDMB05
Brunson
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 115
Reputation: 0
AJDMB05
Default

Definitely, the good stuff rarely gets remembered unless it ends in a tournament win. I can hit all the big hands I want but it's the losses that stick with me. The same night I dropped a game at my friend's house when he calls 5-2 on the button (4-handed) and I move all in with K-K, only to see the board drop 3-4-5-6-x. Yet in the hour before that I picked up A-K at least 3 times, and hit top two/set a few critical times.

Most of this thread was heat-of-the-moment because it's all happened to me hundreds of times before. It was everything all at once that broke me for a while.
__________________
"Well, if there wasn't luck involved, I guess I'd win every one..."
- Phil Hellmuth, '04 WSOP.
AJDMB05 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2005, 3:27am   #7
Godster
Brunson
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 120
Reputation: 0
Godster
Default "Erronius Calls"

AJDMB05: ... I know it's just a run of bad luck, but the bankroll is dwindling from these rotten beats by erronious calls from other people and I'm slowly going on bankroll tilt trying to win money back.

Railing against the "erronius calls" made by implicitly inferrior players is futile and self-destructive.

Firstly: They may not be "erronius" they may have good reasons for putting someone on a hand that, while this one particular time was incorrect, was statistically likely. It can be difficult to know what convoluted but uniquely logical path another player's reasoning has followed.
So don't presume that a call is automatically erronius.

Secondly: It's indicative of a player's short term attitude if they have a problem with another player playing worse than them and getting lucky.

By definition you want people to play badly.

Sure, getting beaten hand by hand hurts like hell. Sure, let it out. Sure.

But be glad if you made the right call. Take satisfaction in the skill you exercised.

There are few experiences that embody the principles of Zen more than Poker (and I'm not talking about that semi-suspect book on Zen and Poker, I'm talking about the real thing.)

Do yourself a favour and get a copy of "Zen In The Art Of Archery" - It's only a short read and it delivers a nice allegory on the principles of Zen.

Sure question your play. Sure, when you lose hand after hand after hand and your bank roll is dwindling dramatically, examine your play from the foundations up.

But don't waste your energy bemoaning the poor play of others.

You should thank your lucky stars every time you realise you have an opponent capable of genuinely "Erronius" play.
__________________
Godster
Godster est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 8:50pm. vBulletin 3.7.4 Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.