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Old Feb 01, 2005, 10:43pm   #11
the_fox31
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Why do you want to isolate. I'd think that you still need to hit a set to win the pot, as any over cards could pair the other player.

Seems like you're just losing implied odds.
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Old Feb 01, 2005, 11:07pm   #12
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There's no law that says with a pocket pair lower than seven, it has to be a multi-way pot. If you can make it heads up and you bet on the flop, you're probably going to win it. Two high cards are only going to flop a pair 1 out of 3 times.

Give me pocket sixes UTG in a longhanded game and I'll raise it 3x the BB all day.
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Old Feb 01, 2005, 11:52pm   #13
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So you isolate to steal on the flop?

I don't see this being possible in late position, unless your opponet is really loose passive.

Early position, you might be able to pull off a flop bluff, as long as 3X the BB does get things heads up.

One problem I see with this is that you are isolating the guy with a good hand. He'll either have a high pair or big cards, which is basically a coinflip that you are playing out of position.
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Old Feb 02, 2005, 10:28pm   #14
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But if he holds a hand like AK, AQ, etc. Its not a coin flip if you bet out the flop anymore. Assuming he doesnt call you with an ace high. He will fold about 65% of the time when he doesnt hit the flop right? Please correct me if I am wrong here.
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Old Feb 03, 2005, 12:17am   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123money321
But if he holds a hand like AK, AQ, etc. Its not a coin flip if you bet out the flop anymore. Assuming he doesnt call you with an ace high. He will fold about 65% of the time when he doesnt hit the flop right? Please correct me if I am wrong here.
That's exactly right, 123. It is only a coinflip if you let them see all five cards, which is not what you're going to do if you make it heads-up. Generally, if someone does have a higher pair, they will re-raise you. Otherwise, if they just call with a hand like 88 and the flop comes something like AT6 and you hold 33, you're going to bet and win this pot.

In my opinion, position is very overrated in NLHE if you've raised before the flop, because you're going to bet the flop.
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Old Feb 03, 2005, 1:01am   #16
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Here's the problem I have...

AK vs. 77

77 ALWAYS has to be tentative. AK knows where they stand.

If the flop has JT4, what can 77 do? Bet? When AK calls, or raises...then what?

What else can they do? Check? Then when AK bets, what?


This is why I don't like playing 77 to win with just a pair of 7's.
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Old Feb 03, 2005, 1:54am   #17
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Why would Ak automatically know that you have 77?
For all they know, with that flop, if they don't respect your play, you could have QJ, you could KJ, you could A10, all of which beat their asses into the ground.

Or, if they respect your play, for all they know, you could have QQ, JJ, KK, AA, all of which ALSO kick their asses.

If you've been playing so loose that they disrespect your play enough to put you on even worse than that, well, I don't know what to tell ya.
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Old Feb 03, 2005, 5:17am   #18
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I think I get the idea of isolating. It gives you another way to win the hand. If there are more than 1 or 2 other players seeing the flop, you must hit trips to take it down. Heads up, after raising gives you the chance of a flop bluff.

Whoever bets first on the flop will win it, unless one of you hits. That is most likely going to be the guy with high cards. In the event that you both miss, then the guy in early position has an advantage over late position.

True, your raise preflop might scare him into checking if he misses, but many will still bet to see what you have, and then you'll have to lay down.

Appreciate your help. I've a much better grasp of this now.
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Old Feb 03, 2005, 9:42pm   #19
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I think I have a good grasp on this now, but just to be sure:

Late position:

2 callers to my right, I should just call. In hopes of hitting a set.

if it is folded to me, I should raise it 3XBB to steal pre-flop, or bet out the flop in hopes of stealing it then.

Early Position:

You want to raise it 3XBB to get things heads up. Then bet out the flop, in hopes of stealing it then.

Correct?
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