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Old Jun 12, 2005, 5:21am   #1
lilsewon
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Default Question about playing those medium hands...

For hands like KJ, QJ, JT, KT, QT...if there is say 1, 2, or 3 limpers, and at least one of those players is a tight player, should you play the hand, cuz u could easily be dominated by the tight limper? How would suitedness play in this?

I think one thing I may be doing wrong is giving to much credit to the high card value of these hands, which isn't a whole lot, and when there's only 2 limpers, you basically have to rely on high card value hands. I'm actually hoping to catch something like a draw or 2 pair...but when I miss that and I hit top pair, I put too much value on that, try to bet it only to find someone calls me down with a higher kicker.
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Old Jun 12, 2005, 6:44am   #2
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If these cards are not suited, I do not recommend playing them against a tight limper (he most likely has a pocket pair he is trying to hit big with but you never know.) Cards being suited really affects the value and the play a lot. None of those hands are any good at all really in Limit unless they are suited so that means just about everything in the world.
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Old Jun 12, 2005, 9:03am   #3
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i would disagree with QT or the likes being suited. If your flush does hit, someone most likely will beat it. I think unless you get top pair with a flush draw for backup with not much action, or two pair, dump it. I play QT a lot and could care less if its suited... i would rather it wasnt, to be honest. Ive hit 4 quad 10s off it in the past month, and a few straights/boats. Once the flush is there and someone is betting i usually get out.
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Old Jun 12, 2005, 10:34am   #4
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I strongly disagree with your post weknow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weknowhowtolive
If your flush does hit, someone most likely will beat it.
That's is just not true. Every flush with 2 holecards has a very high value and is good about 90% of the time.
A queen high flush will get beaten by a higher flush very rarely.
These weak offsuit holding like QT gain a lot of value in multiway pots when they are suited.
It may increase your equity up to 25%. (e.g. you have the equity unsuited of 16% and suited it is 20%, that's a 25% increase)

Quote:
Originally Posted by weknowhowtolive
I think unless you get top pair with a flush draw for backup with not much action, or two pair, dump it. I play QT a lot and could care less if its suited... i would rather it wasnt, to be honest. Ive hit 4 quad 10s off it in the past month, and a few straights/boats. Once the flush is there and someone is betting i usually get out.
You fear flushes too much.
The opposite is correct instead. When you have a strong holding and a flushcard comes you can frequently value-bet even if yo don't have the flush.
This will show considerably profit.


As for the whole thread.
I don't like these hands you mentioned either.
I raise with them from late position (or even late mid position) when it's folded to me. (or at most one loose limper and tight blinds)
They play better against fewer opponents.
When the other players are really loose, you can limp even in a big multiway pot, but never ever cold-call with these holding.
You can play the suited once more often, then the offsuit hands.
Consider folding all weak offsuit hands from EP, consider raising when it gets shorthanded from EP.
You can always try to steal the blins with them.
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Old Jun 12, 2005, 1:56pm   #5
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If there is one tight limper and one or two loose limpers, is it worth limping? is the draw value high enough? it's probably going to be a 4-5 way pot.
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Old Jun 12, 2005, 2:00pm   #6
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When you make top pair you gotta protect it right.
When the players are bad postflop it's probably worth it.
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Old Jun 12, 2005, 2:06pm   #7
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But it doesn't matter if they're bad if they hold QK, and I limp QJ and the Q hits.
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Old Jun 13, 2005, 12:59am   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weknowhowtolive
i would disagree with QT or the likes being suited. If your flush does hit, someone most likely will beat it. I think unless you get top pair with a flush draw for backup with not much action, or two pair, dump it. I play QT a lot and could care less if its suited... i would rather it wasnt, to be honest. Ive hit 4 quad 10s off it in the past month, and a few straights/boats. Once the flush is there and someone is betting i usually get out.
wtf?

your answer was incorrect, the penalty is death.

Kc
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Old Jun 13, 2005, 1:03am   #9
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Default Re: Question about playing those medium hands...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilsewon
For hands like KJ, QJ, JT, KT, QT...if there is say 1, 2, or 3 limpers, and at least one of those players is a tight player, should you play the hand, cuz u could easily be dominated by the tight limper? How would suitedness play in this?
well in this situation you're going to be on the button or close to it, with the higher wodge of those hands I would raise, though I'm not sure how effective this would be in LL.

It's a position raise basically, if I'm not on the button there's a decent chance I can steal it, everyone will likely check to me on the flop so I get a free turn, all sorts of nice things and pixie feathers.

So KJ QJ and any of these suited I raise, the rest I limp.

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Old Jun 13, 2005, 1:42am   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killcrazy
Quote:
Originally Posted by weknowhowtolive
i would disagree with QT or the likes being suited. If your flush does hit, someone most likely will beat it. I think unless you get top pair with a flush draw for backup with not much action, or two pair, dump it. I play QT a lot and could care less if its suited... i would rather it wasnt, to be honest. Ive hit 4 quad 10s off it in the past month, and a few straights/boats. Once the flush is there and someone is betting i usually get out.
wtf?

your answer was incorrect, the penalty is death.

Kc
How is my answer incorrect? I simply said i disagree.
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