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Old Jul 20, 2005, 1:59am   #11
Jason1
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easy brother, that was pretty much what i was saying... i was giving you incraments, if the pot was 750 then i said 900, if the pot was 1100+ you would had to of shoved all your chips in with what you had left.

so to answer your question the bet you made compared to the size of the pot was nothing, i would of called that too. if you all-in'd i would have better faith he would of folded... not saying he would of for sure but alot better than what happened.

make him think if his 78 spades in his hand is high enough even if he does make it.
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Old Jul 20, 2005, 2:57am   #12
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perhaps your appalling diction is making it difficult for you to effectively communicate your point?

language is a tool, you have to use it correctly or you might as well be hammering on a screw.

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Old Jul 20, 2005, 3:44am   #13
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well i thought i explained it well enough, but now that you mention it i suppose i could of detailed it better
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Old Jul 20, 2005, 4:18am   #14
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could have , not could of
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Old Jul 20, 2005, 4:09pm   #15
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Thanks all for the input...and to clarify, the blinds were 50/100 and it was WPT qualifier with about 60 players. So, at the time pre-flop $$ were at $400 (4 x $100) in limp ins when it came to me.

What I'm hearing is pretty clear...my pre-flop raise to $300 may not have been enough (although it pushed 2 of 4 callers out), and my post-flop raise to $500 was definitely not enough if I was "protecting" my pkt. A's. I got two callers on the $300 raise making the pot at $1100. So, post-flop where I see two spades, I either bet pot or more (i.e. push in) or check to see if the spade comes up. The problem I have with the check at this point is giving the not one chaser a free card, but two players a free look...so a check at that point is out of question as I know I have the best hand AT THAT POINT.

Now, at the turn, I'm in the pot for 1/2 my total chips/$800 with a total pot of $2100, and $800 left. When the spade comes, he's first to bet as I am on the button. When he pushes in with $1K, that makes the pot ~ $3100 and I'm left with an $800 call for that, or ~ 4x odds. That's why I called.

Am I 100% sure he's got the flush? No, but looks like it, smells like it, and probably is it...conclusion...lay down the aces and live to fight another day even though I am pretty short at that point.
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Old Jul 20, 2005, 5:21pm   #16
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i think your preflop raise was fine, you got one caller. you dont want everyone to drop.... you want some action.

its just the post flop bet.

personally, if i were playing against you and i saw the preflop raise and the partial pot bet i would be thinking high flush draw and i wouldnt be confident in my low flush draw.


but thats from the outside looking in, who knows .... theres so much info that is needed during the game you must collect so you have to wage the players and everything else.

this may have very well been one of those situations you just couldnt win. the ONLY thing i could say is if you bet high enough you might have gotten him to fold.
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Old Jul 20, 2005, 5:51pm   #17
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Come off it, you got someone to help you with that - and they still dribbled a bit with "wage".
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Old Jul 20, 2005, 6:04pm   #18
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Ok, I'm all for helping out, and as many opinions as possible as long as they're more or less correct. It's important to ensure you're reading the hand properly though... To offer technical advice on a hand without paying attention to the way the hand went is a waste of breath (text) as well as people's time who read it....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason1
i think your preflop raise was fine, you got one caller. you dont want everyone to drop.... you want some action.

its just the post flop bet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chefski
What I'm hearing is pretty clear...my pre-flop raise to $300 may not have been enough (although it pushed 2 of 4 callers out),
I'll leave the whole "I think your preflop raise was fine........." alone because as I stated, the more opinions, perhaps the better. However, I couldn't disagree more with you. 4 limpers plus the SB and BB = 550 already in the pot when it came to chefski. 300 at that point is weak and is offering wonderful odds for all manners of bullshit hands to take a flop and see if they can outdraw you. If you're only going to raise a little more than half the current pot, you might as well limp IMO. You're just inviting trouble.

One final thought as well now that I know the blinds were at 50/100. T550 in the middle when the action gets to you. May not be so bad to push here preflop. Worst case scenario you have the table fold around and you've added 1/3 to your stack without a flop. Something to think about....

At the risk of sounding like a broken record; "Pocket Aces win small pots, and lose big pots"




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Old Jul 20, 2005, 6:14pm   #19
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One other thing... At this point I can't be sure, but I may be posting arguments on this thread in an attempt to achieve "Professional" status by my name. The whole "Shark" label is making me feel silly.



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Old Jul 20, 2005, 9:03pm   #20
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OK, now I get it...just fold pkt. A's pre-flop because they are too high risk, don't win much money and usually get cracked...hmmmmm...

Actually, kidding aside, A's are often difficult to play because you know it's the best starting hand and you expect to win...I've been knocked out of at least 3-4 recent tourneys I can remember with them by just pure pride. I think the lesson here (or anywhere) is that good players know how to bet them for the specific occasion/table/hand and more importantly when to fold them. Too many people get stuck on the fact that you're supposed to win with the best starting hand...just not the case.

I've seen way worse obvious hands where the player just could not get themselves to lay down a high pocket pair. I saw Chris (Jesus) lay down K's one time with the high (board) pair and a flush draw because he just knew he was beat (and he was with trip 10's)...it was phenomenal to see him do that.

In fact, some of the best pros relish in the fact they can lay down 'great' hands...makes them look good on TV.
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