THE FORUMS


German ForumsGeneral DiscussionStrategyFrench Forum
Old Aug 09, 2005, 2:13am   #21
killcrazy
Apex Predator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posts: 10,307
Reputation: 8118
killcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond repute
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile! This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default Re: Really good upswing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Learner
Some of you have mentioned that sustaining such a return on investment is impossible ... is this really true? My PokerTracker stats show a fairly steady hourly return, peaking at about midnight (eastern time). I am not trying to brag, and apologize if I appear to be gloating.
don't worry they're used to me and my ego. return on investment is not the same as hourly rate. ROI describes profit realised on a fixed investment such as a tournament buyin. hourly rate (or more commonly rate of $/hands now that we have shit like pokertracker and can multitable) is a more useful statistic for ring games where buyins are theoretically unlimited.

Quote:
Is 4500 hands considered just a great upswing, or should I discount the results based upon sample size? If I can clear $650 in just a weekend of play, should I just be satisfied with the return. Any comments are appreciated.
It's certainly an upswing but it's an extreme one, which suggests that you're doing something right as well as catching cards.

and yes 4500 hands is a very short sample but this doesn't mean your results are invalid, just that they aren't conclusive. I think there would be a great deal of surprise and some suspicion of witchery if you we're still over 10 BB/100 at 50000 hands

Quote:
Also, my biggest question is ... do any of you play like this: at .50/1 6 max, only entering the game with 12.50 (I play 2 tables) ... I find that this really helps me tighten up my play. If I double my money I tend to leave the table and start anew. Also, as for money management, I cash out every time I go up $50 (my bankroll remains at $100).
I usually buyin for 25 BB and reload if i drop below 15. shorthanded I play a very loose game and see about 45% of flops. I stay at the table as long as it remains profitable, assuming a seat in a more profitable game isn't availible and I want to keep playing.

I cash out on a monthlyish basis to cover living expenses, bills and whatnot. the rest stays in the roll.

Kc
__________________
"Blah blah blah KC is right" - Ozone
killcrazy est déconnecté   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Don't like this ad? Register to make it go away!

Old Aug 09, 2005, 8:27am   #22
Joes28
Grinder
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 879
Reputation: 10
Joes28 is on a distinguished road
Default

Here is what I think:

I have always tried to play the highest table my bankroll would allow while 4 tabling, because when I play a limit that is lower than the one I am at I dont feel like I am winning/losing anything. Maybe this is just me.

Id say the biggest things you need to beat limit holdem are-
1. Avoiding tilt.
2. Pre-flop hand selection
3. Value betting--- one of the biggest mistakes people make is not using the bet/fold line, instead they opt for the bet/crying call line. To be a good limit player you have to be able to be bluffed out of pots on occasion.
Joes28 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 09, 2005, 11:26am   #23
Fredrik
Professional
 
Fredrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,212
Reputation: 148
Fredrik will become famous soon enoughFredrik will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by killcrazy
so I went and nudged a friend who keeps meticulous records and got him to pull his $2-4 stats. Keeping in mind the fact that he plays anywhere from 4 to 8 tables concurrently, his BB/100 was 5.1 over 70000 hands.

So that's the end of that discussion
OK, that's very impressive. His true win rate might still be lower, but if those numbers are accurate I doubt it could be much lower than 4.

I assume we're talking about full tables here (10 or 9 players) and not shorthand?
Fredrik est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 09, 2005, 11:51am   #24
Fredrik
Professional
 
Fredrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,212
Reputation: 148
Fredrik will become famous soon enoughFredrik will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Really good upswing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Learner
Guys, I am brand new to the real money game. This past weekend I went on a binge and played 4500 hands (.50/1 at 6 max tables) and ended up 11.66 BB/100.
You know that BB means Big Bets right? (Not big blinds?). If you do, that's an amazing result, and there's no way that it could be just luck. You must be doing something right. However, you should keep in mind that if you keep playing thousands of hands a week, you will have several sessions each month when you lose at least 50 BB in about 200 hands, without tilting. Those sessions will mess up your stats a lot. Sometimes you will have several such sessions close to each other, and bad luck in most of your other sessions those weeks. When that happens, you may find that you have a negative result over 10K hands or more. Actually, the downswings might be much bigger than what I've said so far. What I'm saying is based on my experience of full games. In shorthanded games, a really bad session must be a lot worse than -50 BB in 200 hands. Also remember that we're all human, and capable of tilting.
Fredrik est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 09, 2005, 11:56am   #25
Fredrik
Professional
 
Fredrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,212
Reputation: 148
Fredrik will become famous soon enoughFredrik will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joes28
3. Value betting--- one of the biggest mistakes people make is not using the bet/fold line, instead they opt for the bet/crying call line. To be a good limit player you have to be able to be bluffed out of pots on occasion.
This may be one of my problems actually. I find it hard to fold the river when my value bet gets raised.
Fredrik est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 09, 2005, 12:04pm   #26
Fredrik
Professional
 
Fredrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,212
Reputation: 148
Fredrik will become famous soon enoughFredrik will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by killcrazy
to comprehensively beat internet low limit hold'em you will require

(i) solid hand selection, extending to;
(ii) the benefits of position as well as;
(iii) an understanding of what hands play well heads up and which hands play well multiway.
(iv) an effective flop repertoire including;
(v) controlling the action and;
(vi) manipulating the betting.
(vii) turn play, specifically;
(viii) delaying a raise with a strong flopped hand and;
(ix) the ability to release weak draws that are no longer economically viable.
(x) river shenanigans, not only;
(xi) value betting and value calling, but also;
(xii) knowing you need a stronger hand to overcall than you do to call!
(xiii) a perpetually looped tape of Addicted To Love by Robert Palmer.

Kc
I have all of those except (xiii) and I've never even been close to 5 BB/100 for more than 10K hands at any of the limits I've played, so there must be something more. Teach me master.
Fredrik est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 09, 2005, 6:53pm   #27
killcrazy
Apex Predator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posts: 10,307
Reputation: 8118
killcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond repute
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile! This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik
I have all of those except (xiii) and I've never even been close to 5 BB/100 for more than 10K hands at any of the limits I've played
then you don't have all of those

Kc
__________________
"Blah blah blah KC is right" - Ozone
killcrazy est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 13, 2005, 3:58pm   #28
Fredrik
Professional
 
Fredrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,212
Reputation: 148
Fredrik will become famous soon enoughFredrik will become famous soon enough
Default

Woohoo! 7.2 BB/100 hands for 1500 hands. Apparently I sucked until a couple of days ago, and I'm a great player now.
Fredrik est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 13, 2005, 8:42pm   #29
killcrazy
Apex Predator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posts: 10,307
Reputation: 8118
killcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond repute
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile! This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

be careful, if you ever go above 7.5 BB/100 for longer than 2000 hands the server will start colddecking you or the bus will explode or something.

Kc
__________________
"Blah blah blah KC is right" - Ozone
killcrazy est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 14, 2005, 12:30am   #30
Fredrik
Professional
 
Fredrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,212
Reputation: 148
Fredrik will become famous soon enoughFredrik will become famous soon enough
Default

I almost got there. I won $300 in 250 hands, but fortunately I ran into an idiot who dumb-lucked at least $150 from me, and once that had put me slightly on tilt, I ran into an even bigger idiot, who won more money from me and got me tilting even more. I ended the session at -$116,50 in 587 hands, so now I'm at 4.66 for the last 2105 hands and 0.30 for the last 10263 hands. At least $50 of the loss in this last session was due to tilt, maybe $100. If this has taught me anything it's that what I really need to work on is how to handle idiots.
Fredrik est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 10:41pm. vBulletin 3.7.4 Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.