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Old Oct 21, 2005, 10:22pm   #1
Lord Mushroom
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Default Guide to winning big in limit

Edited:

At the end of each step there is an estimation of how long it takes an average person to complete the step and how much money an average person should be able to make after the step is completed.

There might be errors in this guide so corrections would be very welcome.

Step 6 can be a bit too much at the same time, but it is not as hard as it sounds.
--------------------------------------------
Step 1) Click on “Poker Rules” and read and understand “The Deck”, “Poker Hands”, “Texas Hold´em” and “Limit”.

60mins.
$0/hr

Step 2) Read and learn the beginner and intermediate section in the strategy guide.

2hrs.
$0/hr

Step 3) Make a deposit on “Party Poker”.

2hrs.
$0/hr

Step 4) Play longhanded (7-10 players) (fixed) limit (as opposed to “no limit” and “pot limit”) play-money ring-games (not tournament) for 5 hours on “Party Poker”. If/when you feel playing becomes too easy and boring, play two tables at the same time.

5hrs.
$0/hr

Step 5) Sign up on “Checkyourbets.com”. From now on always record your games by using this site. “Check you bets” will help you find out how profitable different stakes, gametypes, sites and session-lengths are for you.

15mins.
$0/hr

Step 6) Start reading “Winning Low Limit Hold´em” by Lee Jones. When you have learned some new things, stop reading. Play longhanded limit at the lowest limits (found in Beginner Tables) implementing your new knowledge to your game. When you feel ready to learn even more, stop playing and read on until you learn some new things again, then play again. Repeat this all through the book.

If you feel much better than the average players at the limits you are playing, start multitabling (playing more than one table at a time). Play the amount of tables which you feel makes you learn fastest.

Many tables means you get to play more hands for you to learn from. But too many tables makes the playing so hectic that you won´t have time to learn from the hands as you struggle to keep up with the game. You must find the optimal number of tables yourself.

Move up to higher stakes during this period when two conditions are met:
a) You think you can make more $/hr by doing so.
b) Your bankroll (the money you have set off to play poker) is at least 350 times bigger than the big bet of the limits you are currently playing.

Never multitable immediately when you move up a limit. Make sure you feel much better than the average players at this limit before you start multitabling.

If your bankroll drops by 20 times the big bet (from the size of the bankroll when you started playing on the new limits) of the new limit, move down to the old limit. Only when you have built the bankroll up again can you consider trying the new limits again. Often it takes several attempts before you finally manage to stay at the new limits.

If you have a lot of bad luck and your bankroll is down to 300BB of the limits one step below the limits you are currently playing, move down to those limits until you reach 350BB, then you move up again.

100hrs.
$2/hr

Step 7) If you think you have forgotten a lot from WLLH, repeat step 6 only start at the limits you ended step 6 with.

30hrs (or 0hrs if you don´t need this step)
$2/hr

Step 8. From now on, go through some of the games which fit the stakes you prefer and search for tables where there are bad players before joining the table with the worst players you can find. Most sites help you in this process by showing you the flop percentage of every table. The higher the percentage is the looser (play too many hands) the players are. Looseness is a sign of bad players, but to make sure they are bad players in other regards as well you should watch the table for a few minutes.

Big average pot is a sign of bad players too, only not as strong a sign as flop percentage.

You will experience that the worse the players are, the more often you will suffer bad beats (losing pots you "should have won"). In those cases remember that if they didn´t play like that, the pots you DO win would have been much smaller.

Be warned that you could have losing streaks of up to 150hrs due to bad luck even though you are playing correctly, and vice versa. So don´t evaluate your play simply on whether you made money or not in a single session.

$2,5/hr

Step 9) Go through “Small Stakes Hold´em” by Miller/Sklansky/Malmuth in the same way as you went through WLLH in step 6 and 7.

200hrs
$6/hr

Step 10) Buy and learn how to use software which can help you improve your poker skills. Search the forum for advice.

5hrs
$6,5/hr

Step 11) Play poker until you have the skill and bankroll to move up to $3-6. From now on test different sites. Look for information about the sites on this site and bonuswhores.com before testing to save time and money.

200hrs
$8/hr

Step 12) Go through “Theory of Poker” by David Sklansky. Read when you feel like it and play when you feel like it.

75hrs
$8,5/hr

Step 13) Go through “Hold´em For Advanced Players” by David Sklansky in the same way as you went through WLLH and SSH. Be aware that the advice in this book is meant for games with players who think more advanced than the average player on low limits do, so make sure you don´t use the advice in this book in games which the advice is not meant for.

200hrs
$12/hr

Step 14) Play poker until you have the skill and bankroll to move up to $10-20.

125hrs
$20/hr

Step 15) Play poker until you have the skill and bankroll to move up to $15-30.

175hrs
$25/hr

Step 16) Play poker until you have the skill and bankroll to move up to $20-40.

140hrs
$30/hr

Step 17) Continue like this until you almost stop to improve.

500hrs
$40/hr

Step 18. Continue playing until you start to get tired of ring-games.

x hrs
$40/hr

Step 19) Go through “Tournament Poker For Advanced Players” by David Sklansky in the same way as you went through the other books, only play "Sit and Go" instead of ring-games. Start at lower buyins and move up to higher buyins if your skills and bankroll supports it.

You can multitable tournaments too.

The principles of moving up and down buyins is almost identical to those of ring-games. Only replace big bets with buyins and divide numbers by a factor of 10. Example: You need 35 buyins at your current stakes to consider moving to the next stakes.

Bankroll requirements for multitable tournaments is huge, so only consider playing them if your bankroll for SnG and ring-games is bigger than necessary.

150hrs
$40/hr (this number is for ring-games, hourly rate for tournament games will at this point be much smaller)

Step 20) You are on your own. Play whatever form of limit games you would like. However, start on considerably lower limits than you normally play when you try shorthand (3-6 players) and heads-up (2 players).

Stay updated on “PokerTips.org”, especially on their forum. Ask questions and provide answers. Read more books if you would like, though they won´t be as useful as the previous books, they can still be worth a read.

When deciding what type of game you want to play, consider the hourly rate you have on the different types and what you feel like playing.

x hrs
$40/hr
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Old Oct 21, 2005, 10:32pm   #2
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erm . . . . even if it was necessary for you to post that, wouldnt a link to the page you copied it from suffice?
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Old Oct 21, 2005, 10:41pm   #3
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Shouldn't you have done anything you say about how to beat low limit games yourself before you give others advice about it?

It's definitately not the guide one should go by.

I cannot list all of its errors, I would write an own guide by doing so.

A hint though, 6max is awful for a beginner.


I do apreciate that you want to help others that are in the same situation as you are, and that you not only want to ask questions, but also answer some.

But please, it's no big deal if you cannot help alot yet.
Try to help where you can and where you have the knowledge (or think you have, and you may get corrected yourself, to your advantage again).
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Old Oct 21, 2005, 11:32pm   #4
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I think this is a good EXAMPLE of a plan for beginners.

Yeah. Like Xen said, you might want to rethink the 6 max thing. I realize that since you get more hands per hour you should expect to improve faster, but it is really a game in itself, and will only help you improve at shorthanded games. It will also increase variance, and quicken the death of a bankroll if you aren't a winning player when playing these games.

I don't think that there are "too many errors to list", but there are certainly some things that can be edited and teaked.
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Old Oct 22, 2005, 3:12am   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenthebrain
Shouldn't you have done anything you say about how to beat low limit games yourself before you give others advice about it?
Dammit Zen, that was my line.

Most of the people that write guides to winning, actually have experience in using the methods they are advising others to try.

And why would you suggest for a beginner to read WLLH and then jump into shorthand play? Considering that WLLH is aimed at longhand limit and the fact that most beginners get murdered playing shorthand, I'm curious as to why you feel this is solid advice.

LM, have you actually played for real money yet?
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Old Oct 22, 2005, 3:18am   #6
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Lord Mushroom, I admire your drive to turn poker into a business venture. Fair warning though: I hope you don't have to learn the hard way that stuff like this rarely ever works out as planned. Good luck.
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Old Oct 22, 2005, 3:49am   #7
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# HERE I COME TO SAVE THE DAAAAAAAY!!

you're a fucking idiot.

Kc
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Old Oct 22, 2005, 4:22am   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killcrazy
# HERE I COME TO SAVE THE DAAAAAAAY!!

you're a fucking idiot.

Kc
Wait, do you mean that he's an idiot that's fucking? Bullshit. I call.
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Old Oct 22, 2005, 8:58am   #9
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I have edited the guide so it now recommends longhand play untill you start reading HFAP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xenthebrain
Shouldn't you have done anything you say about how to beat low limit games yourself before you give others advice about it?
98% of the reason why I wanted to gain information to make a guide is so I could follow it myself. 2% was sharing it.

Quote:
It's definitately not the guide one should go by.

I cannot list all of its errors, I would write an own guide by doing so.
Could you list some, in addition to the shorthand for beginners error?
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Old Oct 22, 2005, 9:01am   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_fox31
I don't think that there are "too many errors to list", but there are certainly some things that can be edited and teaked.
I would REALLY like to hear what those things are.
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