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Old Nov 09, 2005, 6:29pm   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phishead25
I think you'll learn much better discipline and fundamentals by starting out playing Limit ring games. The occaisional NL tourney is fun, but if you want to learn, I'd say stick to Limit for now.
Er, I think I disagree. Look at how much practice you can get from playing a $1, $2, $3 tourney with 1500 players or whatever, compared to playing a ring game.

For the amount of money at risk, you really cant beat the cheap MTTs. Take $10 or $20 to a ring game, it can be gone in no time. On the other hand, if you take a beat in a tourney, you lost a buck or two and can try again.

If you integrate MTT with respect to Value, you get:
Low Risk + Possibility of Big Reward + Beginner = Good
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Old Nov 09, 2005, 6:44pm   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hustlr
Quote:
Originally Posted by phishead25
I think you'll learn much better discipline and fundamentals by starting out playing Limit ring games. The occaisional NL tourney is fun, but if you want to learn, I'd say stick to Limit for now.
Er, I think I disagree. Look at how much practice you can get from playing a $1, $2, $3 tourney with 1500 players or whatever, compared to playing a ring game.

For the amount of money at risk, you really cant beat the cheap MTTs. Take $10 or $20 to a ring game, it can be gone in no time. On the other hand, if you take a beat in a tourney, you lost a buck or two and can try again.

If you integrate MTT in respect to Value, you get:
Low Risk + Possibility of Big Reward + Beginner = Good
I agree. Freeroles are also great for some free practice of poker fundementals
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Old Nov 09, 2005, 9:20pm   #23
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It is very limited what you can learn from play-money tables, peenutz, and based on how much time you have spent on those you probably have learned what there is to learn from those by now.

If you want to play poker for real money, but don´t want to deposit any money, freerolls are of course your only option.

When looking for freerolls (to gain cash), sign up on those who have high overlays (total prize money divided by number of players) for maximum profit.

This is a slow way of getting money to play real money games for, so I would recommend making a small deposit instead.

If you decide to play tournaments instead of ring-games, I recommend playing Sit and Go tournaments instead of multitable tournaments at least while you are short on cash. The reason for this is that you are much more likely to lose your entire deposit/freeroll earnings due to bad luck on multitable tournaments. I couldn´t come up with a short explanation of why this is so, but this is definately the case.
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Old Nov 09, 2005, 9:34pm   #24
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If he is as cheap as he says he is, he will get more play in MTTs that SNGs.

That's if he is more interested in learning the game rather than grinding out $.30 an hour at SNGs. I would chose to play $1 MTT over a $1 SNG. Because for the $1, I get more much more play for my dollar in the MTT with a chance at a large reward. The $1 SNG offers you little play with a better chance at a small, short term reward (which will probably be lost in follow-up SNGs.)
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Old Nov 09, 2005, 9:56pm   #25
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Yes, it is of course true that a $1 buy-in in a MTT will give him more minutes/hours of play than a $1 SnG, but my point was that if he played SnG´s he has a better chance of not having to make a 2nd deposit as the variance is much higher at MTT´s. So he could go on playing forever with his initial deposit.

So if he reads the beginner and intermediate section of the strategy guide on this site, he should be able to at least break even in $1 tournaments, and though a $25 deposit is not enough of a bankroll for $1 SnG´s to be absolutely certain it will suffice it is close.

A $25 bankroll for $1 MTT´s is much further away from being sufficient.
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Old Nov 09, 2005, 10:27pm   #26
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and though a $25 deposit is not enough of a bankroll for $1 SnG´s to be absolutely certain it will suffice it is close.
I'd say 20-25 buyins for SNGs is pretty sufficient. I'm starting to get the feeling that you and I are in disagreement with many things
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Old Nov 09, 2005, 10:56pm   #27
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Quote:
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Quote:
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and though a $25 deposit is not enough of a bankroll for $1 SnG´s to be absolutely certain it will suffice it is close.
I'd say 20-25 buyins for SNGs is pretty sufficient. I'm starting to get the feeling that you and I are in disagreement with many things
Oh, that doesn´t sound very promising for my future, you being the expert and thus holding all the answers and me............not so much so...

You are of course correct when it comes to the SnG buyins bankroll sufficiency. I have heard an experienced player should have minimum 20 buyins in SnG´s and a less experienced 30. So 20-25 should be sufficient, but with extreme bad luck it wouldn´t.
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Old Nov 09, 2005, 10:58pm   #28
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I agree you may be able to get more for your money at freerolls and MTT's, but I still think that learning to play in tournaments doesn't necessarily teach you good fundamentals. This is because in any MTT or SNG, you really need to adapt your style of play and starting hand requirements as the tourney progresses.

I think you first want to learn your basic tight/aggressive style of play on cheap ring games, and then move on once you're able to adjust your style of play dynamically as the game changes.

But yeah, if you just want to play for a long time cheaply, you can get a lot of hours out of freerolls and $1 MTTs.
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Old Nov 10, 2005, 6:59am   #29
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Originally Posted by Hustlr
I'd say 20-25 buyins for SNGs is pretty sufficient. I'm starting to get the feeling that you and I are in disagreement with many things
+1

25 buyins, your risk of ruin is virtually nil.

assuming you can play.

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Old Nov 10, 2005, 3:44pm   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phishead25
Congrats on learning what a kicker is.

The point is, if you're only playing play money tables, you're not learning any strategy, because the chips at stake don't mean anything to anybody.

It sounds like you're spending money on books about poker. Take the $25 you were going to spend on your next book, and start to play micro Fixed Limit hold'em, and read through Limit Hold Em forum like was already suggested. By the time you get to the end of the forum and the end of your $25, you'll probably find you're becoming a winning player. At the very least, you'll be ahead of where you'd be still playing for play money, or even freerolls (nobody's playing good poker in those either, at least in the early stages).

You don't need to spend hours at a time, my average session is probably only 1.5 hours.

I think you'll learn much better discipline and fundamentals by starting out playing Limit ring games. The occaisional NL tourney is fun, but if you want to learn, I'd say stick to Limit for now.
Ok, thanks for the advice phishead. Consider that I have only been playing about 6 months, so I'm still learning things. Learning is a lifelong
process. There are players who have been playing less than a year that
could be potential world champions. There are players who have been playing for decades that are lousy. It depends on the relative skill level,
which is usually acquired through knowledge.
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