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Old Nov 19, 2005, 8:28pm   #1
SevenToo
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Default Curious Hand of a Friend

He raises preflop 4bb with 88

the flop is 8c Ad 10d

so i say, protect you hand, go all in (drawing maniacs + some ppl with low stacks), to get heads up with AT AX or 2 Diamonds

all fold but one guy with 3d 3s.

turn is a Diamond as my friend say "oh man no fricken diamon pls"

exactly that happens.

Diamond, he goes of like BS and i try to high five/shake hands / generally calm him down.

because the one and only fricken diamond that shouldnt hit the board came:
EIGHT

lol, that other guys jaw must have hit the bottom of Marianen-Grounds
(or whatever deepest Pacific point is named)

i ll introduce him to send me that hand history ^^
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Old Nov 19, 2005, 8:38pm   #2
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so i say, protect you hand, go all in (drawing maniacs + some ppl with low stacks), to get heads up with AT AX or 2 Diamonds
That is by far and away the worst advice I have ever heard.

The whole point is to force your opponent to make mistakes. A pot size bet would allow you to do that. You want people with Ax to call, and you want to make it mathmatically wrong for someone chasing the flush to call.

Pushing all in the most -EV thing.
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Old Nov 19, 2005, 8:54pm   #3
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ok i ll memo that.

the real problem is (was) these guys wont fold and AP frickn dealt evry possible bad river today for him, so i though push it to get these freaks out or make them pay hard.
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Old Nov 19, 2005, 8:56pm   #4
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here is the hand
Stage #229085781: Holdem No Limit $0.05 - 2005-11-19 16:18:15 (ET)
Table: DEY ST (Real Money) Seat #2 is the dealer
Seat 2 - GMAX1ON1 ($16.65 in chips)
Seat 4 - CHRISWINZ ($6.60 in chips)
Seat 5 - AKAPIMP ($10.55 in chips)
Seat 6 - ESKIMO CLARK ($19.50 in chips)
Seat 7 - QUIKIE ($0.90 in chips)
Seat 1 - SMURGA ($3.43 in chips)
CHRISWINZ - Posts small blind $0.05
AKAPIMP - Posts big blind $0.10
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to SMURGA [8h 8s]
ESKIMO CLARK - Folds
QUIKIE - Calls $0.10
SMURGA - Raises $0.40 to $0.40
GMAX1ON1 - Folds
CHRISWINZ - Calls $0.35
AKAPIMP - Calls $0.30
QUIKIE - Calls $0.30
*** FLOP *** [4d 10d 8c]
CHRISWINZ - Checks
AKAPIMP - Checks
QUIKIE - Checks
SMURGA - All-In $3.03
CHRISWINZ - Folds
AKAPIMP - Folds
QUIKIE - All-In $0.50
SMURGA - returned ($2.53) : not called
*** TURN *** [4d 10d 8c] [Ad]
*** RIVER *** [4d 10d 8c Ad] [8d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
SMURGA - Shows [8h 8s] (Four of a kind, eights)
QUIKIE - Shows [3s 3d] (Flush, ace high)
SMURGA Collects $2.50 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($2.60) | Rake ($0.10)
Board [4d 10d 8c Ad 8d]
Seat 1: SMURGA won Total ($2.50) All-In HI$2.50) with Four of a kind,
eights [8h 8s - P,P,B,B,B]
Seat 2: GMAX1ON1 (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 4: CHRISWINZ (small blind) Folded on the FLOP
Seat 5: AKAPIMP (big blind) Folded on the FLOP
Seat 6: ESKIMO CLARK Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 7: QUIKIE HI:lost with Flush, ace high [3s 3d -
B,B:10d,B,B,P]
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Old Nov 19, 2005, 9:35pm   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenToo
ok i ll memo that.

the real problem is (was) these guys wont fold and AP frickn dealt evry possible bad river today for him, so i though push it to get these freaks out or make them pay hard.
If your friend's primary purpose in playinig is to have fun, and getting rivered makes that not happen, then you were right to counsel him to push all in and try to push out the calling stations.

If your friend's primary purpose is to win money, then aseyer is 100% right. You want the calling stations to call against your big hands, thats the only way to beat them.
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Old Nov 20, 2005, 3:33pm   #6
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jeah well, it is kinda unfunny playing 5 hours losing to various guys entring the table and just hit one hand vs you OR just represent that hand probably, but "you" as a somewhat thinking player either lay down or constantly bet into their hit straights / flushes.

will see how this works out in the long run, but i cant see making money without pushing ppl out of their draw constantly ^^.
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Old Nov 20, 2005, 6:25pm   #7
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On Friday evening I got a set of 5s cracked in succession, once from the button by a flush ( fortunately the inept check raise attempt saved me a chunk of my stack), and then immediately afterwards in the SB by a straight. Was I annoyed? Yes, very because I was just getting rags after rags or missed flops that also fell co-ordinated with a lot of callers and not long after I decided to stop for the night.

The important point though was did I play correctly by making them pay for their draws? In the case of the flush yes, and my opponents failure to get me to pay him off more only helped my situation. In the case of the straight then no not really as he could have had the straight on the turn but I still went at it like a bull in a china shop and he was probably going to call me if he made it or not.

On the plus side, for every rivering I get when the opponent didn't have the odds to call, the Law of Averages is gently wooed over to stand in my corner and see me get paid me off at a later date.
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Old Nov 20, 2005, 7:48pm   #8
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will see how this works out in the long run, but i cant see making money without pushing ppl out of their draw constantly ^^.
Why don't you start by reading the Theory of Poker? And then try not being emotionally invested in the game.
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Old Nov 20, 2005, 7:57pm   #9
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jeah guess thats a main problem.. emotions emotions.

ToP is ordered.

maybe harrington would have been better idea since i prefer NL/NL MTTs
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Old Nov 20, 2005, 8:45pm   #10
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I think Aseyer recomended that book to reinforce his point that you do want drawers calling with bad odds. Since you don't seem to believe him, he gave you a reference to an excellent book.
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