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Old Feb 23, 2006, 11:06pm   #1
downtown
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Default $25 NLH Play, what do you think?

My buddies are debating the hell out of my play here, I thought it was an easy decision at the time, speculative, but based on situational evidence I thought it was a great opportunity. Just thought I'd see what y'all think.


Table texture: Fairly loose passive, standard raise pre-flop is $1-2, post flop play seems timid with anything other than AA/KK overpair or better.

I'm in the big blind.

Hand: 97s

UTG - 7th position limp, 8th min-raises, SB calls, I call, UTG, +1 & +2 call, +3 raises to $1.75. Two callers in MP, plus the button, everyone else folds, action to me.

Pot: $9.5

So here I am with 97s getting between 6 or 7 to 1 on a 1.25 call. At the time I figured I was against at least one big pair that was making a mistake and slowplaying, and a mix of medium/small pairs... maybe one or two people playing AK/AQ/KQ. Three of the 4 people in the hand had $50 stacks to match mine.

My thought was that I had gotten into an interesting situation with a marginal hand and was getting great odds to see a flop. I was in position to end the betting so I didn't have to fear a raise behind me, I felt I would be able to manipulate the table post-flop if I did flop a draw, and if I flopped a monster I would get paid off perhaps 2-3x my stack size.

To me it was a clear call, some of my buddies think I'm insane =D
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Old Feb 23, 2006, 11:33pm   #2
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Clear call both times. Your buddies don't understand the concept of pot odds and implied odds.
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Old Feb 24, 2006, 1:00am   #3
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Instacall. No question about it.
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Old Feb 24, 2006, 3:10am   #4
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Newbie question, but how do you know if 6-7 to 1 pot odds is justifying your call? I mean how do you figure it out.
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Old Feb 24, 2006, 3:28am   #5
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Yup. Definitely a call.
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Old Feb 24, 2006, 5:04am   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_money84
Newbie question, but how do you know if 6-7 to 1 pot odds is justifying your call? I mean how do you figure it out.
There is no hand in hold 'em that is a 6.7 to 1 dog before the flop.
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Old Feb 24, 2006, 9:21am   #7
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Absolutely you should call. You have a hidden hand and are getting great odds and implied odds if you hit the draw. You are betting $1.25 to possibly double up your stack, which makes great sense. And if the flop brings you rags, you just fold away. These hands are great because you either have a monster, a draw with lot of outs, or nothing. This makes for easy decisions.

Your position means you end the pre-flop betting but it does put you at a weakness post-flop. If you flop the monster, then no problem, but how do you play the flop if it gives you a drawing hand?

If you check you risk the top pair betting big and scaring out the other callers, thus greatly reducing your pot odds. If you value bet, you risk someone coming over you and achieving the same result, although now you are more pot committed.

I would probably value bet on this drawing hand as you may get some callers before the top pair comes over the top, thus improving your pot odds. Also you have read that post-flop play is pretty timid, so you may even freeze top pair into thinking that you have hit 2 pair or trips. Also, this means that if you hit the monster on the turn, you are in great shape to double up as no-one will expect you to bet from early on a drawing hand.

The only warning in this hand is that with so many callers, you could be facing a stronger flush draw and you need to be careful not to draw dead.
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Old Feb 24, 2006, 4:59pm   #8
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Send your friends to this forum to try to convince me that this isn't a good call.
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Old Feb 24, 2006, 6:30pm   #9
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There is no hand in hold 'em that is a 6.7 to 1 dog before the flop.

Well, maybe one, but it shouldn't have gone that far

Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ah 1493820 87.24 212248 12.40 6236 0.36 0.874
2c 7d 212248 12.40 1493820 87.24 6236 0.36 0.126
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Old Feb 24, 2006, 6:48pm   #10
downtown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozone
Send your friends to this forum to try to convince me that this isn't a good call.
Yeah, that was kind of my intention. Trying to explain pot odds and the HUGE implied odds of this situation to some of these guys is an interesting experiance. Found it pretty funny that they completely didn't believe that I made a good call, figured I'd post this up here and show them the 42 "insta call" replies as an example and maybe help them learn a new concept.

For those wondering, the flop came 6 8 T rainbow... I proceed to do the fist pump and air spank as the UTG comes over the top of my $6 raise for another $20 which is followed by 2 calls and my re-raise all-in... which is also called by the 2 big stacks...

Ended up being against JJ, TT, KK. Two over pairs and top set (I find it funny that the KK called... man I would have been saying "fuuuuuuuck this" and pulling the escape hatch lol). Made $160 in the hand, good times,
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