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Old Mar 16, 2006, 1:37am   #1
patred48
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Default Does anybody understand checking down?

I thought the etiquette in a tournament was to check down the small stack unless your hand improves?!

Late in a SnG:

Full Tilt Poker Game #501523692: $5 + $0.50 Sit & Go (3268945), Table 1 - 120/240 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:08:02 ET - 2006/03/15
Seat 2: villain (5,135)
Seat 4: ndcrhall (340)
Seat 6: hero (3,525)

hero posts the small blind of 120
villain posts the big blind of 240
The button is in seat #4

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero[Kd Qd]
ndcrhall raises to 340, and is all in
hero calls 220
villain calls 100

*** FLOP *** [Th 5d Ks]
hero checks
villain bets 240
hero calls 240

*** TURN *** [Th 5d Ks] [6h]
hero checks
villain bets 720

hero: way to check it down

hero has 15 seconds left to act

hero: folding KQ

hero folds
villain shows [Kh 8d]
ndcrhall shows [Kc Qc]
Uncalled bet of 720 returned to villain

*** RIVER *** [Th 5d Ks 6h] [7s]

villain: i have cards <-- woot! third best hand!

villain wins the side pot (480)
villain shows a pair of Kings
ndcrhall shows a pair of Kings
ndcrhall wins the main pot (1,020) with a pair of Kings

*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1,500 Main pot 1,020. Side pot 480. | Rake 0
Board: [Th 5d Ks 6h 7s]
Seat 2: villain (big blind) showed [Kh 8d] and won (480) with a pair of Kings
Seat 4: ndcrhall (button) showed [Kc Qc] and won (1,020) with a pair of Kings
Seat 6: hero (small blind) folded on the Turn

Granted, the small stack and I would have just split the pot, but still, that's a few hundred less chips than he would have gotten.
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 1:50am   #2
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You know people often act without thinking about it first right ;)

I guess he tought he had the best hand and didnt want you to suck out or something. Or perhaps he wanted that empty sidepot at all cost
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 2:38am   #3
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Seriously, this is NOT an instance where he should check it down. You should be betting anyway. Why do you want him to check it down when you have a decent hand? I'd be raising. You got outplayed badly I'm afraid.
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 7:49am   #4
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what's that check on a flop you hit with, in this situation most likely TPTK, since i think AK and KK would have raised here?

a rainbow flop with no immediate danger of a str8, 3 players on the table, you hit and you check?


what was it you were trying to do?
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 10:22am   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spec10
what was it you were trying to do?
Short stack was on the bubble in a 6-man SnG. I figured 2 hands vs 1 would have a better chance at knocking him out.

Again, I thought the etiquette in a tournament/SnG was to check down the smaller stack all-in unless your hand improves.
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 10:51am   #6
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I think you misplayed here.

Etiquette?? No such thing in a pokertournament. Youre there to win, not to be nice.

Smart play. It stupid to try and bluff someone out of a hand when a small stack is all-in. But in this case you definately hit the flop, just like the villain. His bet was correct because he had top pair, but you should have raised him.
If you have a strong hand , you should play it, and if the all-in still gets the better of you, well that's just too bad.
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 4:49pm   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafvdv
I think you misplayed here.

Etiquette?? No such thing in a pokertournament. Youre there to win, not to be nice.

Smart play. It stupid to try and bluff someone out of a hand when a small stack is all-in. But in this case you definately hit the flop, just like the villain. His bet was correct because he had top pair, but you should have raised him.
If you have a strong hand , you should play it, and if the all-in still gets the better of you, well that's just too bad.
This is an example that I could think of where two people checked down against the smaller stack. A little bit higher stakes, though.

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Hand 226 - Steve Dannenmann has the button in seat 8, he raises to $750,000, Hachem calls, and Barch moves all in for $5,650,000, pushing his chips out in front of him.

The action is back to Dannenmann, who says, "Call," and then Hachem tells the dealer to wait, before he calls as well. (Neither of the big stacks raised, so all three players are in for $5,650,000 each.)

The players must be as tired as the spectators (and the media), unless they all woke up to great hands. There is still a side pot at stake, so the hole cards won't be revealed yet.

The flop comes 10c-3d-2d, and both players check the side pot. The turn card is the Qh, and they check the side pot again. The river card is the 9c, and they check again. Time to see what they have!

Hachem shows pocket jacks, Dannenmann has pocket sevens, and I heard that Barch had A-6. (I couldn't see the cards on the monitor.) Hachem wins a pot worth over $16,000,000, and Tex Barch is eliminated in third place, earning $2,500,000.
How is this different? From what I can remember from watching it on TV, Dannemann and Hachem just casually checked (unless of course they edited them out agonizing the decision ).

Or should I just say, "Fuk it, it's a $5 SnG, I'm going over the top all in." ?
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 5:43pm   #8
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No one is saying you can't check it down - just that it is not some sort of unwritten rule.

If I am the big stack and stealing lots of blinds I might bluff the side pot to try and keep the short stack in.

Not very friendly maybe, but I am trying to win the tournie not get others into the money.
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 7:41pm   #9
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You keep saying "check it down unless your hand improves".

How much do you need to improve your hand before you bet? LOL! You hit top pair with a decent kicker. Throw out a bet, then another on the turn. You'll win instead of losing and crying about it here afterwards. Even if your opponent beats you, as long as he beats the guy with the short stack, you win second.
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 10:55pm   #10
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Checking down isn't "being nice", it is being mean. You are basically engaging in a form of implied collusion. It is quite often a smart play.

It think the only terrible thing to do in this kind of situation is to bluff.

Believe it or not, I have played with people who have done this.
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