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Old Apr 20, 2006, 10:28am   #1
SidMaynard
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Default Definition of a suckout?

So I'm playing $25NL at a full table, sitting UTG when the following hand occurs:

Dealt to HERO 7d7s.

I limp in. Two other limpers. Button raises to $1.00. There's been very little re-raising, so I'm not overly concerned about the two to act after me and the button has my full buy-in covered. Happy with my implied odds I call. Two limpers fold.

Flop 6s 8h Td

Not the worst flop in the world, I've got a pair and a gutshot. I decide to represent the flop from early position to see where I am, and maybe buy the pot against 2 overcards or freeze up an overpair and see the turn for cheap. So I bet about 2/3 pot. Villain takes his time and then calls.

Turn 9h

I've hit my str8 so I bet about 1/3 of the pot, keep him interested and show a little weakness. He immediately re-raises to pot sized bet. The only hand I'm worried about is JQ, but I don't see him raising pre-flop with this, so I push all-in. He calls and turns over pocket T for the set. River is rags and I double up with the str8.

He says "Nice suckout, fish"

Now I'm thinking this isn't a suckout as I got my money in when ahead, and he called all-in when behind. His slowplay allowed me to outdraw him, which I don't consider a suckout. I explained this to him patiently, and he said "Yeah, but you would have called an all-in on the flop, anyway, so it's still a suckout". Well, actually I wouldn't call an all-in with low pair and a gutshot, but is that the point?

Then it occurred to me that I've never actually seen a definition of a suckout. So my question to you all, is what do you consider to be a suckout?
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Old Apr 20, 2006, 10:36am   #2
MannyIsGod
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You know what a suckout is. My question to you is, why are you explaining poker strategy to those you want to beat at the table? I've been guilty of this too, but its a bad bad habit to get into. I try to avoid it at all costs.
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Old Apr 20, 2006, 11:13am   #3
SidMaynard
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Actually I didn't explain it to him patiently, that was a little English sarcasm. What I actually said was "You slowplayed, you lost, get over it".

Having said that I have been guilty of discussing strategy, which you are correct in pointing out is kind of dumb against people you are using it against. I'm gonna stop that from now on.
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Old Apr 20, 2006, 1:01pm   #4
Iestyn75
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Isn't a suck-out just the flip-side of a bad beat? Except perhaps suck-out can apply to moderate beats (ie 25/75 beats as well as the 10/90s).

Now:
Quote:
Having said that I have been guilty of discussing strategy, which you are correct in pointing out is kind of dumb against people you are using it against. I'm gonna stop that from now on.
I think there is a world of difference between discussing the strategy you are using to win and talking (after the hand) about the strategy which lost. In the case of those who are bone-headed enough to blame their poor play on other people's luck, I don't think you are losing too much anyhow, and at a table where others are still trying to figure you out, it can actually add to the image you are trying to create, which is to gain respect whilst not frightening the fish away altogether.
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