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Old Apr 20, 2006, 8:34pm   #1
catfish88
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Default Idiot or Genius??? NL200 Bluff

Sure, I had no business being in this hand. But, once you're in, you gotta play to win, right? This guy seemed pretty tight and I think by now I had established that I'll play almost any 2 cards.


Total number of players : 5
Seat 2: awong21 ( $169.50)
Seat 3: dac7423 ( $55)
Seat 4: ME ( $203.70)
Seat 5: nutzbaby ( $123.85)
Seat 6: dnba501 ( $245.80)
dac7423 posts small blind (1)
ME posts big blind (2)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ME [ Tc, 4c ]
dnba501 raises ( to 8
awong21 folds.
dac7423 folds.
ME calls (6)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 9d, 8s, 5c ]
ME checks.
dnba501 bets (6)
ME calls (6)


At this point I have pretty much decided that I am going to try to bluff him out of this pot. I think he probably has an overpair, or a hand like AK that missed the flop completely.


** Dealing Turn ** : [ 6h ]
ME bets (15)
dnba501 calls (15)


That call was pretty scary, but I decided to stick with my game plan...


** Dealing River ** : [ Jh ]
ME bets (50)
dnba501 folds.



PHEW! That was stressful. What do you guys think??? Have I lost my mind???
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Old Apr 21, 2006, 1:38am   #2
randomkev
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I like that move, calling to the river and then making a raise, leaves you looking stupid sometimes but nice none the less. All depends on the read you have on your opponent though.
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Old Apr 21, 2006, 5:30am   #3
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I don't think anyone can answer this question honestly. A bluff like this has almost nothing to do with anything we can comment on from a hand history.

I might just have folded on the flop. NH though.
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Old Apr 21, 2006, 12:02pm   #4
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I like it, the betting pattern adds up for the drawing hand and it played out well in your favour.

Did youdecide what hand you were going to represent, or just that you were going to bluff?

The thing about bluffing is that your betting has to add up and make a strong narrative about your hand. Too many people think they can just make a massive bet on the river as a bluff, but if they haven't been betting on earlier streets to define their hand, why should I believe them.

Choosing your hole cards can be a very good way of playing a bluff, so you play the hand as if you were holding different hole cards. For example in this one you are holding 67s or pocket 7. Then you play the hand exactly as you would if these were your cards and the bluff looks far more convincing.

You played the hand as you would if you had flopped or were drawing to the str8 and that is why he had to fold on the river.

So how fast was your heart beating?
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Old Apr 21, 2006, 1:21pm   #5
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I'm tired so I'm not going to get too into it, but here are a couple of things to think about:

There's a big difference between him having AK and having an overpair. You could potentially bluff either out, but you have a *much* better chance of getting AK to fold, and you have a much better chance of outdrawing AK too.

I know it's not always easy to tell which someone has, but if you really thought they were likely to have an overpair, this might not be the best hand to bluff them on...

The turn card was actually very *good* for you though. I don't know what you were worried about, because if he had an overpair or AK, that card should scare *him*, and maybe he actually would lay down his pair now. You sound like it scared you though...did you forget that you were bluffing and you could represent the straight...?

It also gave you an inside straight draw and a chance at actually winning even if he did call you, so I'd say it was a pretty nice turn for you. He might even pay you off if you hit since there would be a straight on the board too. Yours would just be higher.

I don't really like call before the flop though...that's a pretty weak starting hand to call that big a raise with against just the raiser.

Also, if you were commited to bluffing big, I think it might have been more effective to check-raise him on the turn and really make it look like you just hit your straight...

What you did worked (that time) though, so I can't bash it too much. I wouldn't call you an idiot for it, but I wouldn't put it too close to genius either...
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Old Apr 21, 2006, 4:18pm   #6
catfish88
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Thanks for the feedback guys.

SidMaynard said:

Quote:
Did youdecide what hand you were going to represent, or just that you were going to bluff?
In all honesty, no I really didn't. However, these guys had seen me playing a lot of hands and calling some raises with suited connectors. This guy seemed to be playing pretty tight, raising preflop with medium to high pairs and hands like AK, KQ, etc. Pretty straightforward. I was quite sure that this board wasn't a big help to him, so the bet on the turn was basically to represent the possibility that I just hit my straight or that I might already have two pair. As Kazz said, I did have a few outs to the inside str8 draw.

Kazz said:
Quote:
The turn card was actually very *good* for you though. I don't know what you were worried about...
I wasn't worried about the card at all, in fact, that was almost a perfect card for me. I would have preferred the 6 of clubs, but... I was a little worried about his call. There was still the chance that he had a hand like 77 and was happy that I was betting into him with a made str8 and position, but I really didn't think so.

Kazz said:
Quote:
I think it might have been more effective to check-raise him on the turn and really make it look like you just hit your straight...
I think this is a valid point. My thinking at the time was that I wanted more information about his hand now. If I check, he bets $15, I raise to $45, and he pushes all in, I've got to fold it. If I bet $15 and he raises to $45, I can reraise big and hopefully make him lay it down, or maybe just fold it now. Like I said before, his call made me a little nervous, but I just think he didn't quite believe my bluff yet.

My other consideration for playing it this way, is I had not been slowplaying anything at this table. I had earlier bet out when I flopped a flush (though I got outdrawn anyway), I bet out when making a FH on the turn, etc. So, hopefully he would remember this.

Kazz said:
Quote:
I don't really like call before the flop though...that's a pretty weak starting hand to call that big a raise with against just the raiser.

I totally agree. But, I was trying to establish an image as an unpredictable player they didn't want to mess with. That can lead to a lot of variance, but it also resulted in pretty good payoffs when I actually had a monster. This doesn't fall into my category of premium starting hands though, thats for sure...
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