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Old Jun 07, 2006, 8:48am   #1
shredder91
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Default Bad beat, Rivered, or plain bad luck???

Now, going on previous posts, who can say what constitutes a bad beat or being rivered, but i felt pretty bad after this one.

$5 HE Limit S'n'G on Party.

I'm last, with five people left on the table, i've got 1700 or so chips, blinds are 200/400, so its getting desperate, i'm dealt JJ in 4th position, utg bets 400, so i raise to 800 and LP raises again to 1200, SB, BB and UTG fold, with only 900 chips left i'm committed, so i raise to cap at 1600, LP calls, flops comes 8JA - sweet as - i naturally bet my last 100 and get called. He turns over AK. Still looking good, turn comes an A - made my FH to his trips.......river is a K and my victory dance is cut cruelly short and i'm history.


Also, played a freeroll on Party and had KK in late position, early in the tourney. A few people go all in, naturally i call expecting Ax and medium PP's so not overly concerned. Hands turned over - QQ, 88, A9s. As is the way with Party the, flop, turn ,river happens in about 2 seconds and you move on. So while looking back at what happened while thinking 'wtf just happened there?' The flop had come 8Q4 turn was a Q and the river was a 6.....well at least i beat the A9s
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Old Jun 07, 2006, 11:23am   #2
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First one is another lost coinflip, effectively allin preflop with PP v overcards. Who cares what order the cards come? If tthe flop had come AAK you would still have put your last 100 in (I hope so anyway).

Second one you were only about 45% to win (big favourite, but you lose more than you win).

I would not class either as bad beats.
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Old Jun 07, 2006, 12:07pm   #3
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well wasn't really complaing about the second one as sh!t happens.

but what is it with this, it doesn't matter what order the cards come vibe, the fact of the matter is the cards came AJ8 and after the flop i was 97% favourite to win

seeing as you're obviously the oracle, how could this hand have been played differently so that i could get out of it or not make it a coin-flip.

answers on a postcard to:-

its not a badbeat unless the oracle say's so
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And if i can put a hypothetical out there, if i had had the chip count to allow me to cap the betting on each betting round, would i be allowed to call it a bad beat or whatever then?
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Old Jun 07, 2006, 12:54pm   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shredder91
but what is it with this, it doesn't matter what order the cards come vibe, the fact of the matter is the cards came AJ8 and after the flop i was 97% favourite to win
Calculating the odds at some random point when there is no more betting action possible is meaningless. Why not say that because the first card on the flop was an A that you put a bad beat on your opponent? The fact that it is a coin flip is based on all possible outcomes, including those you seem to see as a bad beat.

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how could this hand have been played differently so that i could get out of it or not make it a coin-flip.
It couldn't with these chip counts. That's why the end of tournaments see a lot of coin flip situations.

Quote:
And if i can put a hypothetical out there, if i had had the chip count to allow me to cap the betting on each betting round, would i be allowed to call it a bad beat or whatever then?
Yes, because you would have been a big favourite on the flop and turn betting.
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Old Jun 07, 2006, 1:47pm   #5
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I agree with expopcorn.
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Oh, and obviously, TWLLM, we'd all rather you just ruled with an iron fist of nittiness and made all decisions without consultation, but that goes without saying, right?
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Old Jun 07, 2006, 2:04pm   #6
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and so it goes on, slime in this ear, slime in that ear, don't you ever yearn for change (5 points if you recognise where this came from)

am i not allowed to feel aggreived at a hand that i couldn't get away from or is that not allowed in this holier than thou forum we call pokertips.

and if you look at the title, it suggests 'bad beat, rivered or plain bad luck', if you had just said bad luck, i wouldn't have had to respond then have to read your preachy diatribe and respond...again.

oh and TWLLM, why am i not surprised?
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Old Jun 07, 2006, 2:21pm   #7
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It seems that the current forum definition of bad beat excludes NL and PL.
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Old Jun 07, 2006, 2:23pm   #8
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I just love how all I have to say is I agree with someone who has valid points, and you take personal offense. At least you should realize by not ITS NOT ME ITS YOU.
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Oh, and obviously, TWLLM, we'd all rather you just ruled with an iron fist of nittiness and made all decisions without consultation, but that goes without saying, right?
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Old Jun 07, 2006, 2:37pm   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shredder91
and so it goes on, slime in this ear, slime in that ear, don't you ever yearn for change (5 points if you recognise where this came from)
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am i not allowed to feel aggreived at a hand that i couldn't get away from or is that not allowed in this holier than thou forum we call pokertips.
Of course you are allowed to feel aggrieved, but

a) if you are aggrieved over losing a coin flip are you cut out to play poker?
b) why do you think we want to know you lost a coinflip?

Quote:
and if you look at the title, it suggests 'bad beat, rivered or plain bad luck', if you had just said bad luck, i wouldn't have had to respond then have to read your preachy diatribe and respond...again.
I did you the courtesy of explaining why I didn't consider either of these situations to be a bad beat. How that relates to preachy diatribe, I'm not sure. In my second post I set out calmly (at least that was what I intended) a response to each of your points. The aim of this was to try to give you a different way of looking at these situations so that you don't get aggrieved and can focus calmly on the next hand. Hopefully, this should help to improve your poker.

However, my main concern from these 'bad beat' threads is that they clutter up what used to be a forum which was largely dedicated to discussion and not whinging. Whilst there is still a lot of good discussion going on, it is getting harder to filter out the noise. Where there is a definite strategy element to the post I would welcome them as a point for discussion.
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Old Jun 07, 2006, 2:38pm   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmytrick
It seems that the current forum definition of bad beat excludes NL and PL.
no jimmy, it excludes coinflips however they might be dressed up. In fact the first example here was limit.
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