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Old Jul 27, 2006, 9:34pm   #11
Doyle Look-alike
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I feel your pain:

Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: SEAT 1 ( $474.70)
Seat 2: SEAT 2 ( $1094.30)
Seat 3: HERO ( $550.60)
Seat 4: VILLAIN ( $600.75)
Seat 5: SEAT 5 ( $890.35)
Seat 6: SEAT 6 ( $301)
VILLAIN posts small blind (3)
SEAT 5 posts big blind (6)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Jc, Ac ]
SEAT 6 folds.
SEAT 1 folds.
SEAT 2 folds.
HERO raises (19) to 19
VILLAIN calls (16)
SEAT 5 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 5h, 8s, Ad ]
VILLAIN checks.
HERO bets (27)
VILLAIN calls (27)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Jd ]
VILLAIN checks.
HERO bets (45)
VILLAIN raises (120) to 120
HERO calls (75)
** Dealing River ** : [ 2c ]
VILLAIN bets (434.75)
VILLAIN is all-In.
HERO calls (384.60)
HERO is all-In.
Creating Main Pot with $1104.20 with HERO

** Summary **
Main Pot: $1104.20 | Side Pot 1: $50.15 | Rake: $3
Board: [ 5h 8s Ad Jd 2c ]

HERO balance $0, lost $550.60 [ Jc Ac ]
VILLAIN balance $1154.35, bet $600.75, collected $1154.35, net +$553.60 [ Js Jh ]

Yep, I'm a donkey. The only thing he could have was a set. I'm surprised the turn was a Jack, the only card that could simultaneously give him the best hand and get me to pay him off. DAMMIT!!!! Looking back my river call was pretty horrible. Playing on tilt is a no no.
'I'm 100% sure... although I could be wrong.'
- gollum
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Old Jul 28, 2006, 11:56am   #12
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rickey i think you're confused. my post was about ME hitting TTP or TPTK and my opponent having a set. i've run into this so many times where my opponent doesn't reraise me, just calls to the river so i'm essentially paying him off.
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Old Jul 28, 2006, 3:27pm   #13
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Originally Posted by 1idjack
rickey i think you're confused.
Nothing new. Your comment just made it sound bad to play a pair for set value.
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Old Aug 02, 2006, 9:40pm   #14
Too tired for poker
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Pocket pairs are becoming a favourite hand for calling pf raises with due to the implied odds (I also use the 10x rule) so it makes playing TPTK or overpairs more difficult.

TPTK is a vulnerable hand, so you need to establish very early on where you are in the hand. I tend to bet strongly on the flop, then if I get called I have to think what kind of hand is going to call: are there obvious draws on the board, have I reraised pf etc?

If I am getting action with no obvious draws, then alarm bells go off. In this case I will slow down and try to play the hand out cheaply: putting out small blocking bets or check-calling. It depends on the situation and my position/reads etc.

Bear in mind that you dont need to bet as much on the turn to protect your hand as you do on the flop, as the odds of drawing out are much higher after the turn. And if you have any concerns that you dont have the best hand on the river, just check-call or check behind. Far better to win a small pot than lose a big one.

Say someone calls your pf raise with any pocket pair, Ax, 2 high cards. In your example, if he has Ax you have him dominated, if he has 2 high cards you have him dominated, if he has JQ he is unlikely to chase with only a gutshot, but if he has pocket 3 you are behind. So in all these possible holdings either you are dominated or dominating, so slowing down and playing the hand out cheaply from the turn is not going to change the outcome.

The hand you describe is a classic example of playing your cards, without reading the other players cards. What is he calling your pf raise with, and then your big bets on the flop, and turn? Ask yourself this question all the time and try to put your opponent on a hand. It will help you to recognise when you may be second best.
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Old Aug 06, 2006, 1:31pm   #15
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Gus is a jewel in the roughGus is a jewel in the roughGus is a jewel in the roughGus is a jewel in the rough

Against bad players, a classic line is call, minraise, bet 1/2pot or less.

Against some of the tightest players, I even fold TPTK on the turn sometimes, even with 5-1 pot odds because its so obvious. After all, weak tight players wont reraise with TPGK 99% of the time.
Originally Posted by rabidcow View Post
crazy thing is is i win money lol. that should be a ray of hope for all newbies
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Old Aug 06, 2006, 2:32pm   #16
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Originally Posted by 1idjack
i've run into this so many times where my opponent doesn't reraise me, just calls to the river so i'm essentially paying him off.
He is doing you a favour by not raising you and providing more resistance. If you do fear a set and he is just calling, make your bets smaller so you lose less if he does have that set. Some might say that if you fear a set you should check but then you are giving him the chance to bluff you or you now pay his price to see the showdown. Another way of saying this is he has the best hand but is content paying your price to see the showdown so I guess the term is 'reverse-value bet' him by making it cheaper than it should be. (note: I don't know if this is a poker term yet but it should be and I should get the copyright on it. )
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