THE FORUMS


German ForumsGeneral DiscussionStrategyFrench Forum
Old Aug 08, 2006, 6:04pm   #1
madcow16
Brunson
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 125
Reputation: 0
madcow16
Default Big slick...

Sorry for spamming the forums but yesterday I was having a pretty horrible run with AK on $.50/1 in a span of 400 hands:

AKs:
net loss - 8.20
won/times dealt - 1/5

AKo:
net loss - 6.55
won/times dealt - 7/17

Those are some pretty sad sad numbers. Naturally, I thought my luck would change, but I got put into some really questionable positions. Thoughts?

Hand 1:

Unfortunately, I have no read on the villian. He just sat down at the table and this was one of the first hands he played. The raise on the turn makes me suspicious and I'm wondering if I've been behind the whole time (to a set, 2-pair, and the river possibly made him a straight??)

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, A.
Hero raises, 1 fold, CO calls, 3 folds.

Flop: (5.50 SB) A, 6, 7 (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, CO calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls.

River: (9.75 BB) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB
Main Pot: 11.75 BB, between Hero and CO.


Hand #2:

Villian is a 73/27/2.81/44 maniac. I've seen him cap preflop with K2o. Did I potentially miss a value bet or 2 on the river (i.e. should I have 3-bet it)? I think under normal circumstances, I would've, but 1) this guy had position on me the whole way, and 2) I've been losing so much with AK, I was kind of getting sick of it.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, K.
UTG calls, MP raises, 3 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, MP caps, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 8, K, K (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, MP raises, Hero 3-bets, MP caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets, MP raises, Hero 3-bets, MP caps, Hero calls.

River: (18.25 BB) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets, MP raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 22.25 BB
Main Pot: 22.25 BB, between MP and Hero.
madcow16 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Don't like this ad? Register to make it go away!

Old Aug 20, 2006, 4:04am   #2
TallJohn
Brunson
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 141
Reputation: 0
TallJohn
Default

I think you're behind on hand 1, but I don't think you can fold. There's still a chance you're ahead, there's still a chance that he has 2-pr that you have outs against, and if you fold to a turn raise with 9x BB in the pot people will start coming after you.

On hand 2, I would have a hard time not capping the river. Given the preflop action I would be a little worried about 99 or 88, but really can't see him on a flush draw with the action on the flop. Since he's a maniac, I'm thinking KQ here.

Thoughts? Was I far wrong?
TallJohn est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 20, 2006, 11:17pm   #3
madcow16
Brunson
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 125
Reputation: 0
madcow16
Default

Wow, one of my old posts that nobody responded to got dug up! Thanks Talljohn. I'll post the results later if anyone's interested, but for now, I had a different question for the rest of the field. I noticed that my win % for AK was quite low. Actually, it's a bit lower than its equity against most random hands I think, and I'm not sure if it's by virtue of my play or a relatively "small" sample size. Here are the stats at $.50/1:

AKo:
Times dealt - 197
Win % - 56.35
Net - 110.79
BB/Hand - 0.56

AKs:
Times dealt - 81
Win % - 59.26
Net - 48.98
BB/Hand - 0.60

Are these stats way out of line? Because they seem to be below my AQ/AJ stats, and it seems there should be really no excuse for that. =\
madcow16 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 21, 2006, 11:38am   #4
Grinder
Brunson
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 182
Reputation: 0
Grinder
Default

Pretty far out of line and getting to the point where you have to look at how you are playing them.

I have

1006 AKo 55.77% wins 2.46BB/hand
350 AKs 58.29% wins 3.68BB/hand

I COULD be variance but perhaps not folding enough when you are behind?
Grinder est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 21, 2006, 11:53am   #5
Ishbu3116
Pope of Online Poker
 
Ishbu3116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,147
Reputation: 27
Ishbu3116 is on a distinguished road
Default

Both hands were played fine. Those overally rates with AK are awful. AK is my 4th most profitable hand longhanded. As long as you play AK right over the long run you will make a very nice profit. Keep with it. I had a series of hands recently with AA that I was down 3 BB per hand with them. Limit is a neverending poker game, and if you play long enough all good and bad fortune will even out.
__________________
Ishbu's Blog is finally up...http://theishbu.blogspot.com Last Updated (05/12/0
Read about my Play Money Prop Bet http://www.pokertips.org/forums/showthread.php?t=59087
Ishbu3116 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 21, 2006, 2:10pm   #6
madcow16
Brunson
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 125
Reputation: 0
madcow16
Default

Wow, 2.46 and 3.68 BB/hand? I think the highest my avg BB/Hand is is 1.82 (KK). I wonder if it's because of the limit I play or the style of play that I choose to employ. Usually I will cap with TT+, AK if I can, and follow up with continuation bets on the flop and turn while checking behind on the river if I hit nothing. But since I play $.50/1, people with really crappy holdings like T3o will catch a pair, and a lot of times will catch a pair and call down regardless of flop texture. I'm not too sure if there's anything I can do about situations like these, but it seems to happen a lot more often than I'd like. Looking through PT right now and reviewing my AK hands to see what exactly I'm doing wrong.
madcow16 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 21, 2006, 6:30pm   #7
madcow16
Brunson
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 125
Reputation: 0
madcow16
Default A very interesting AK hand

Throughout this hand I was a little confused as to what to do. I was playing at the table for quite a while but a lot of new players were coming in so I only had a read on one. Is the river a raise? I was contemplating it, but the 3rd heart made me wary. Is this even a hand I should've stuck around to see a river and should I have given a free card on the turn considering I only have A high?

Stats:
SB - 86 / 26 / 0.77 / 133 (very strange player...)
BB - Unknown
UTG - Unknown


PokerRoom 0.50/1 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, A. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
BB checks, UTG raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, SB (poster) calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 6, 7, J (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG raises, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10 BB) 3 (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: (10 BB) A (4 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB
madcow16 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 21, 2006, 9:14pm   #8
Ishbu3116
Pope of Online Poker
 
Ishbu3116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,147
Reputation: 27
Ishbu3116 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by madcow16 View Post
Wow, 2.46 and 3.68 BB/hand? I think the highest my avg BB/Hand is is 1.82 (KK). I wonder if it's because of the limit I play or the style of play that I choose to employ. Usually I will cap with TT+, AK if I can, and follow up with continuation bets on the flop and turn while checking behind on the river if I hit nothing. But since I play $.50/1, people with really crappy holdings like T3o will catch a pair, and a lot of times will catch a pair and call down regardless of flop texture. I'm not too sure if there's anything I can do about situations like these, but it seems to happen a lot more often than I'd like. Looking through PT right now and reviewing my AK hands to see what exactly I'm doing wrong.
You should be making much more than that with KK honestly. Are you missing some spots for value on the river or maybe you are just running bad. That and you AA should be a good bit higher than your KK. One hand with AA against KK will change that. Same thing with KK against AA, that will sharply drop you winrate with KK. My guess based on the third hand history is that you have a problem folding AK. I do not mind calling one SB with AK but calling a second can be dangerous because your A or you K may be dead. I do not mind calling the river there with TPTK, but I would be suprised if you had the best hand. I think you need to work on folding this hand in a multiway pot if you miss. Not saying you should always do it but that is one hole a lot of beginners have is calling down with two overcards that probably are not live.
__________________
Ishbu's Blog is finally up...http://theishbu.blogspot.com Last Updated (05/12/0
Read about my Play Money Prop Bet http://www.pokertips.org/forums/showthread.php?t=59087
Ishbu3116 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 21, 2006, 10:04pm   #9
madcow16
Brunson
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 125
Reputation: 0
madcow16
Default

Regarding the KK/AA stat, I find that whenever I have these big pocket pairs, I don't have a problem folding when I know I'm behind, but when I'm ahead, most people just fold on the flop. The best case scenario is usually when people end up calling me down with TP when I have the overpair, but I never really get the chance to raise. Believe me, I try and extract everything I can out of people in these situations, it's just that when they do end up calling down, the only time that I'll get an opportunity to raise is when I'm behind (i.e. they check-raised the turn). There isn't too much I can do about that I think.
madcow16 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 21, 2006, 11:57pm   #10
jimmytrick
Professional
 
jimmytrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,248
Reputation: 395
jimmytrick is just really nicejimmytrick is just really nicejimmytrick is just really nicejimmytrick is just really nice
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by madcow16 View Post
Throughout this hand I was a little confused as to what to do. I was playing at the table for quite a while but a lot of new players were coming in so I only had a read on one. Is the river a raise? I was contemplating it, but the 3rd heart made me wary. Is this even a hand I should've stuck around to see a river and should I have given a free card on the turn considering I only have A high?

Stats:
SB - 86 / 26 / 0.77 / 133 (very strange player...)
BB - Unknown
UTG - Unknown


PokerRoom 0.50/1 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, A. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
BB checks, UTG raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, SB (poster) calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 6, 7, J (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG raises, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10 BB) 3 (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: (10 BB) A (4 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB
I don't get the call on the flop at all.
jimmytrick est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 5:22pm. vBulletin 3.7.4 Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.