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Old Aug 19, 2006, 6:34am   #1
SilverHornet
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Default Best hand I ever played...resulting in the worst beat I ever took

Ok, I know you are all probably sick of bad beat stories, but bear with me because this one was especially bitter to swallow because

1.) I was really happy with the way I'd played the hand until the river card came out

2.) It cost me the tournament on the bubble (4th place in a single-table S&G)

I was "Vespidae" on Pokerroom.com:

$100+$10 (play money), hand #481,347,234
Santa Fe Single Table Tournament, 14 May 2006 2:37 PM


View Previous hand for this table.


Seat 1: wolfman1953 ($3,290 in chips)
Seat 2: carpetburn21 ($6,180 in chips)
Seat 5: micromann1 ($1,625 in chips)
Seat 10: Vespidae [AS,KS] ($3,905 in chips)


ANTES/BLINDS
micromann1 posts blind ($15), Vespidae posts blind ($30).
PRE-FLOP
wolfman1953 calls $30, carpetburn21 calls $30, micromann1 calls $15, Vespidae checks.
FLOP [board cards 4S,10S,KC ]
micromann1 checks, Vespidae checks, wolfman1953 checks, carpetburn21 checks.
TURN [board cards 4S,10S,KC,8D ]
micromann1 checks, Vespidae checks, wolfman1953 bets $3,260 and is all-in, carpetburn21 folds, micromann1 folds, Vespidae calls $3,260.
RIVER [board cards 4S,10S,KC,8D,8C ]

SHOWDOWN
wolfman1953 shows [ 8H,AH ]
Vespidae shows [ AS,KS ]
wolfman1953 wins $6,640.


SUMMARY
Dealer: carpetburn21
Pot: $6,640
wolfman1953, bets $3,290, collects $6,640, net $3,350
carpetburn21, loses $30
micromann1, loses $30
Vespidae, loses $3,290

My slowplay worked to perfection, and he hangs himself (or tries to) on the turn with one out. ONE OUT. 8 of spades gives me the flush.

Then to add insult to injury, here's the next hand:

$100+$10 (play money), hand #481,350,362
Santa Fe Single Table Tournament, 14 May 2006 2:38 PM



View Previous | Next hand for this table.



Seat 1: wolfman1953 ($6,640 in chips)
Seat 2: carpetburn21 ($6,150 in chips)
Seat 5: micromann1 ($1,595 in chips)
Seat 10: Vespidae [AH,3D] ($615 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
Vespidae posts blind ($15), wolfman1953 posts blind ($30).
PRE-FLOP
carpetburn21 calls $30, micromann1 calls $30, Vespidae bets $600 and is all-in, wolfman1953 calls $585, carpetburn21 folds, micromann1 folds.
FLOP [board cards 5S,7D,3H ]

TURN [board cards 5S,7D,3H,JD ]

RIVER [board cards 5S,7D,3H,JD,JC ]

SHOWDOWN
Vespidae shows [ AH,3D ]
wolfman1953 shows [ 7S,JS ]
wolfman1953 wins $1,290.



SUMMARY
Dealer: micromann1
Pot: $1,290
wolfman1953, bets $615, collects $1,290, net $675
carpetburn21, loses $30
micromann1, loses $30
Vespidae, loses $615



I had to take a few weeks off from poker after that, and still haven't been back to Pokerroom. "Why?", you may ask. "It's only play money". I take play money just as seriously as if it were real money. Here's why:

I started playing play-money online poker so that I could gain some experience and improve my poker to the point where I could move to real money. I will never switch to real money until I can consistently win and increase my bankroll at play money (I.E. I never run out of play chips and have to rebuy).

However, if I keep taking bullshit like this (which I do) and getting busted shy of the money, I lose my play money, have to rebuy, and won't move up to real money.
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Old Aug 19, 2006, 9:23am   #2
Molinero
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In my opinion you can be winning all the play money in the world and still be a loosing "real money" player. The two simply don't compare. The play money games won't give you any real experience. My advice would be to find $50 and deposit it somewhere - see it as an investment in experience.

And bad beats - they just happen .... to everyone.
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Old Aug 19, 2006, 10:30am   #3
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OMG 4 players left blinds 15/30....dude this is playmoney u can just FOLD to be a winning player in playmoney sngs, callin this practice for real money is just a sick joke


and u played the hand TERRIBLE btw

i see no way to play it worse
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Old Aug 19, 2006, 10:47am   #4
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even if you beat playmoney tourneys at a point, i can assure you that Beats re out there, especially in low limits wehre it s only "cents".

People wont fold (good !) and draw out on you (bad :-( ) a dozen Times.

If you really want to play poker without worrying about the Money, play Freerolls or deposit 50$ and play 2c/4c limits. thats a lot of Practice; + you might win some :-)
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Old Aug 19, 2006, 11:25am   #5
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Sorry, SilverHornet, but I have to agree with the other replies in this post.

There's no comparison between play money and real money poker. Beating one won't help you in beating the other. And if you're going to let bad beats get to you in play money, you should consider never moving to real money at all, because they'll still happen, and it looks like they'll eat you up.

Also, when you come to play for real money, if you slow play hands like the one described in your post, you're going to lose money. Basically, when you checked before the flop, you should've raised. When you checked after the flop and turn, you should've bet. That way the guy who just caught an 8 on the turn would have already folded after the flop, and if he hadn't, he should have folded after the turn, and you would have won 120 chips instead of losing 3260. Be content to accept small victories when the cards dictate it, and always be aggressive enough to discourage others from out-drawing you.
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Old Aug 19, 2006, 12:36pm   #6
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First off, the specific hand. Riccohb was excatly right with what he said above. Slowplaying is fine when you (a) have a monster, (b) have a small number of opponents and (c) have opponents who won't put money in the pot unless you slow play. In the above case, (a) and (b) were certainly not true, and in a playmoney SnG, I'd wager (c) isn't either.

As for the larger issue, play money before real money, I'm going to disagree with a lot of the other posters here. I think it's not a bad idea to avoid real money unless you can beat play money. Why? If you're taking the game seriously (and not just folding into the money from the get-go, which works in play money games) and aren't beating (nay, crushing) the play money games, then you are likely doing something very wrong, and you will likely lose money at the real money games. Success at play money doesn't suggest success with real money, but failure with play money tells me that a failure with real money is likely.

Likely, you're playing too many hands, and (from the above) not playing them aggressively enough. Against bad players, don't get fancy. That means: don't bluff, don't play sheriff, don't slowplay. Bet when you have good hands, fold when you have bad ones. It's not glamorous but it's the way to beat play money and low limit real money.
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Old Aug 19, 2006, 2:33pm   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geth View Post
OMG 4 players left blinds 15/30....dude this is playmoney u can just FOLD to be a winning player in playmoney sngs, callin this practice for real money is just a sick joke


and u played the hand TERRIBLE btw

i see no way to play it worse

Quote:
Basically, when you checked before the flop, you should've raised. When you checked after the flop and turn, you should've bet. That way the guy who just caught an 8 on the turn would have already folded after the flop, and if he hadn't, he should have folded after the turn, and you would have won 120 chips instead of losing 3260. Be content to accept small victories when the cards dictate it, and always be aggressive enough to discourage others from out-drawing you.
I guess there's nothing to be gained from trapping all of somebody's chips in the pot when they have one out.

I'm really pissed off now at reading this. I didn't come here to be insulted. I'll try to articulate my reasoning for playing the hand the way I did later when I don't feel like reaching through the walls of cyberspace and strangling Geth.
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Old Aug 19, 2006, 2:58pm   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverHornet View Post
I guess there's nothing to be gained from trapping all of somebody's chips in the pot when they have one out.
Just like getting a bad beat doesn't mean you played the hand poorly, getting your money in as a favorite doesnt mean you played your hand well to that point, either. Or, put another way, his awful, awful, awful bet on the turn doesn't mean that your passive play to that point was the correct way to play the hand.

In the long run, slowplaying in that situation is most likely -EV because of (as I wrote before) the relative weakness of your hand and the number of other players you're allowing to draw.

If you're looking for only sympathy and not advice, this forum might not be the best place to find it. If you want to improve, stick around, read the strategy articles, and take the advice that people are offering.
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Old Aug 20, 2006, 2:02am   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cetacean View Post
Just like getting a bad beat doesn't mean you played the hand poorly, getting your money in as a favorite doesnt mean you played your hand well to that point, either. Or, put another way, his awful, awful, awful bet on the turn doesn't mean that your passive play to that point was the correct way to play the hand.

In the long run, slowplaying in that situation is most likely -EV because of (as I wrote before) the relative weakness of your hand and the number of other players you're allowing to draw.

If you're looking for only sympathy and not advice, this forum might not be the best place to find it. If you want to improve, stick around, read the strategy articles, and take the advice that people are offering.
Sounds like a plan. Ok, let's see if I can explain my thinking during that hand (although it was several months ago as you can tell I remember it quite vividly).

The universal criticism here seems to be that I played the hand too passively. I am ordinarily much more aggressive preflop and on the flop with a hand like AKs, but in this situation, with everyone limping in while I'm in the BB I decided a different approach was in order (after all, isn't unpredicability what a poker player strives for?) for a couple of reasons.

1.) We are one shy of the money, and I don't want to get busted or crippled against something like the short end of a coin flip (small pp) or big pp sneakily played. From what I'd seen in the game so far any of the players could have limped with a hand like that.

I wanted to see a favorable flop first before investing a raise since I've cost myself in the past by overplaying AK type hands, flopping jack garbage, getting raised and having to lay it down with my dead money in the pot.

2.) If the flop is unfavorable I plan to put out a feeler bet and if I get raised, I can release the hand relatively inexpensively. If the flop IS favorable the strength of my hand is now concealed.

Then comes the flop. TPTK for me along with the nut flush draw.

cetacean, I admit this is not a supreme monster hand but I am still VERY pleased at this flop, and I want action. I think my hand is the best, and even if it's not there's no way I can be drawing dead. The best type of player I figure I can get it from is someone with a weaker king or lower flush draw, so I check again planning to raise a bettor. When there are no bets I'm just about 99% sure I have the best hand and the only way I'll get any value is if the turn helps someone. The 8d on the turn appears to be a complete blank, so I check again hoping someone will try to buy the pot. When wolfman moves in on the turn I don't even hesitate to call. The only hand I could have been afraid of was a pocket pair of eights or a K-8/4/10, but again there's no way I could have been drawing dead against those and I didn't put him on either of those. He might have limped preflop with one of them, but would have bet on the flop. I put him on either a king with a weaker (and unpaired) kicker or a lower flush draw that would be dead to mine.

A single pair of eights never entered in my mind, but boy was I happy to see it. Until that river...

I hope that made some sense. I don't see why I should have to defend my play anyhow. The upshot of it is that I couldn't possibly have had him more bottled up than I did-the only way he could have won after the flop was to catch the running 8d and 8c exactly on the turn and river-8s gives me the nut flush-and that's what he got. Any of the 39 other cards left in the deck besides the 8c comes on the river, and I bust him outta there and go into 3-handed play as chip leader.
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Old Aug 20, 2006, 3:28am   #10
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Horrible play.
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