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Old Oct 03, 2006, 6:31am   #21
Hustlr
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Originally Posted by Jason1 View Post
5 card draw beginners advice:

- In a full table (5 people) dont enter the pot unless you have jacks or better
I dont really agree with this. I base this on what position I'm in. For the majority of the time, I follow these guidelines:

When first in the pot, raise with:
UTG: KK+ , Cutoff: JJ+, Button: 88+, SB: 66/AK+.

Obviously I tighen or loosen up depending on how the table is playing, but I generally follow these starting hands. They are largely based on the probability that your hand is best depending how many are left to act.

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- When showing down with one other person and you are first to act don't ever bet into someone unless you have a high 2 pair (jacks up or better), small 2 pair (10's up or lower) check call.
Pretty good advice. I do bet low two pairs into some players, if they are stations. But generally, I check call.

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- when showing down with a single pair check the hand down, if the other player bets ... fold your hand.
Cant really argue here. Sometimes you can make a case for calling with a high pair if the other player has consistently bluffed or bet out low pairs for some odd reason.


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- If your are dealt a set predraw then cap the predraw betting round. (statistically, in fixed limit draw you can also cap the post draw betting but I don't advice this for beginners because in most cases a post draw cap means a very large hand)
I Agree, unless up against an extrememly tight player, or the opponent drew 1 and likely hit a flush/straight then you can just put in 2 or 3 bets post draw. I play pretty agressive and will 3 bet predraw with some weaker hands if I feel they are likely best. Therefore, I will play my sets really fast and usually get paid off if I'm seen as a loose player.


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- in draw, any hand that is a straight or better is considered a monster hand. Always cap all betting rounds with these hands.
Sure.

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- when entering the pot by making or calling a raise only do so if you feel you have the best hand. Odds are most hands do not improve so majority of the time if you enter the pot with the best hand you will also end the same way.
This is one the biggest errors seen in weak players. You really want to be going into the draw with the best hand, not trying to play catch up. Calling with marginal hands is the downfall of most players.


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- only chase straight or flush draws when the odds exist to do so. (which is extremely rare) ... for instance, if your in the BB and its checked to you then obviously you can draw to it. Or if your in the BB and UTG raises and everyone calls the raise and you have 4 to a flush. Other wise, always fold.
Totally agree. You will see players at low limits cold calling 3 bets with a draw. You simply dont have the odds to draw for value in a 5 hand limit game. When playing at 3/6 and up with players that I am familiar with, I will sometimes 3 bet predraw with a flush or straight draw, and bluff post draw. But it's not really drawing for value. I'm doing it to randomize my play and stay aggressive. This also allows me to do the same thing with a high two pair and flush draw (3 bet, draw 1, bet out ) and get paid off since they will think I'm bluffing. I never flat call with a draw hoping to hit, unless I'm in SB and everyone has limped.

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- When drawing with a pair or trips, DO NOT keep high card kickers such as A's or K's. For instance, if your dealt KKAxx , throw away the Axx. Same goes if your have 333Ax, throw away the Ax.
This is so common and I dont really get it. I never really keep kickers. Yeah you have a better chacne at hitting two pair by keeping your kicker, but I think theres more value in drawing to the set since it has a higher chance at being the best hand post draw and will make more money, by allowing you bet or raise more aggressively, than two pair will.


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- At showdown, when you have a monster always bet out first. Do not get fancy with check raises.
Generally agree. It's tough to say "always" though, but for the most part, just play it straight forward. I see alot of players who are playing really loose and then check their full house and miss out on an extra bet, especially with their image. I only check raise when I have a complete maniac left to act, and even then, it might be better to bet if he is likely to raise.


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most people palying draw have little to no idea what they are doing, so if you use these few tips I can almost gaurantee long term +EV. The players are just so soft you can play systematically and it doesn't seem to make much difference at all.
100%. You can play with no imagination at all and destroy up to at least 3/6 level. I've run into some pretty good regular players at 5/10 and 10/20 on PokerRoom though. The game does change a bit up at that level, but much of this advice still applies.

Last edited by Hustlr; Oct 03, 2006 at 6:37am.
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Old Oct 03, 2006, 8:29pm   #22
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BTW...nice post Jason. Good advice.
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 7:38pm   #23
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What would you have to say about Bankroll reqs for draw? Here are my assumptions, criticize them if you wish

1. Shorter handed, and alot more hands per hour
2. Less betting rounds
3. Less variance (The best hand predraw is more often the best hand postdraw, than a texas holdem hand preflop & at the river)

Add any if you like, i cant really think well right now.
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 11:12pm   #24
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I agree. I think it does have less variance, for the reasons you have stated.

BR requirements....eh... it's still based on personal comfort level and dependance on your bankroll.
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Old Oct 07, 2006, 9:53am   #25
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This is so common and I dont really get it. I never really keep kickers. Yeah you have a better chacne at hitting two pair by keeping your kicker, but I think theres more value in drawing to the set since it has a higher chance at being the best hand post draw and will make more money, by allowing you bet or raise more aggressively, than two pair will.
I think it's a good idea to keep a high kicker with your small/medium pair if you're in the BB against a raise from an aggressive Button/SB.
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Old Oct 07, 2006, 1:48pm   #26
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I agree. I think it does have less variance, for the reasons you have stated.

BR requirements....eh... it's still based on personal comfort level and dependance on your bankroll.
Yeah, i still dont feel comfortable playing without 300 BBs. Because draw is so fast and furious
(around 90-160 hands/hr), even a short tilt could do some damage. And youre correct hustlr, BR reqs are mainly on personal reasons, and level of dependence on your bankroll.
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Old Oct 08, 2006, 8:23am   #27
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woops, sorry guys. Haven't been down to this section of the forum in a few days.

Yeah thanks Hustlr. As always in poker, its assumed that every piece of advice given is "every situation is different but in most cases I do this _____ .... "


That advice was just to a straight plane jane newbie to draw wanting some tips. I've obviously modified that list to my own personal list but its pretty close to that.... unless of course I find Hustlr or any of you other guys who just read that at the table... then I'll really have to get creative lol .


As far as bankroll goes... yeah, its all about comfort. On one hand you have higher hands per hour but then you have less variance. When its all said and done with you come out to about the same requirements of Hold'em I'd say. Except with sitdown money, I tend to sit down at fixed limit draw 1/2 less than I do with holdem 1/2 . but when I play pot limit I sit down with the max... the only thing that sucks is at poker room theres two big blinds with only a max of 5 people.. usually its only 3 or 4... talk about being super aggressive to keep ahead of the blinds and rake !! I try to stick to FL as much as possible these days. Now that the big poker scare is over now (hopefully, ..... or at least for a while) I'll continue to play 1/2, then probably one of these days bump up to 2/4.

Its nice to play something different after what ? ...... 3-4 years of straight holdem.
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Old Oct 08, 2006, 8:24am   #28
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I think it's a good idea to keep a high kicker with your small/medium pair if you're in the BB against a raise from an aggressive Button/SB.

whats your name on the poker sites you play at ?
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Old Oct 08, 2006, 10:59am   #29
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whats your name on the poker sites you play at ?
First of all, I don't play that much draw at the moment because I moved my BR away from Poker Room to other sites which don't offer draw. Then again what's the use anyhow?
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Old Oct 08, 2006, 7:18pm   #30
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oh, so your not playing draw now.
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